# Fix this CCP. You keep losing players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872 "2021-01-13T05:55:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/44 "2021-01-13T11:06:40Z")
(post deleted by author) ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/45 "2021-01-13T11:07:48Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking wasn’t intentionally developed, it’s emergent behaviour LIAR . ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/47 "2021-01-13T11:09:10Z")
LIAR ² ---
**Author:** ![Tharvus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tharvus/32/246994_2.png) [@Tharvus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tharvus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/48 "2021-01-13T11:10:31Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > so when you make real life comparisons There’s your problem. Don’t do that, it’s a game. Do you join a COD forum going “killing people is inhumane, you’re all murderers”? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/49 "2021-01-13T11:10:34Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking wasn’t intentionally developed, it’s emergent behaviour Please explain the existence of Concord and the red safety button. (If CCP did not intend ganks to happen, they could have just made it impossible to attack people in high sec space. No need for a Concord response to be developed in that case!) ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/50 "2021-01-13T11:12:35Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Please explain the existence of Concord and the red safety button. I already told him in another post and he kept dodging the question. Don’t expect any kind of honesty from him. He does not post to be right, he posts to **look** right, even when he is wrong. He is the sole reason other threads were closed : he kept spamming complete BS and did not address any of the issues of those claims. Just keeping spamming the same stupidity again and again. “I’m entitled to my stupid opinion”. No he is not, he is just an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Tharvus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tharvus/32/246994_2.png) [@Tharvus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tharvus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/51 "2021-01-13T11:14:17Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Please explain the existence of Concord and the red safety button. Technically, in the beginning CCP didn’t really think it through (nothing has changed much tbh) so they created concord to “stop people from attacking each other” in high sec. The fact that “stopping people” isn’t really a binary thing where it just won’t happen any more wasn’t really on their radar. It wasn’t intended gameplay, it just emerged from that and they went “ehh, we’ll allow it”, just making it more and more difficult over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/52 "2021-01-13T11:15:55Z")
> [@Tharvus](#): > > Technically, in the beginning CCP didn’t really think it through yes, they literally thought it enough for it to remain unchanged until now. > [@Tharvus](#): > > it just emerged from that and they went “ehh, we’ll allow it”, That’s not the definition of emergent. To be emergent needs to not have been thought of at all. If the devs thought a tiny bit about it, and they did to implement the concord system, then it’s not - by definition - emergent. What is emergent gameplay, is the bumping of freighters to prevent them from warping until 10 hours later a fleet is available to gank them. THAT was never thought of by the devs. ---
**Author:** ![Fale\_Einn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fale_einn/32/477432_2.png) [@Fale\_Einn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fale_Einn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/53 "2021-01-13T11:19:15Z")
Can someone please explain to me what a webbing alt is and how they work? I’m clueless… This is something I’ve never heard of. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/54 "2021-01-13T11:22:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 Of course morality is involved. If you’re taking something simply because it’s free rather than because you need it then you’re depriving someone who does need it. That’s why there are usually limits placed on getting free items. But without any such restrictions, it’s an open invitation. Something done in bad class isn’t necessarily amoral. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Because gankers don’t want that and so every time it’s raised people get bombarded with ad hominems until they leave the forum or until the thread gets closed because moderating it would take too long. Nah. Gankers are concerned with a slippery slope, considering how ganking has been getting repeated nerfs over the years. In fact, when freighters were originally changed to be able to choose between bulkheads and expanders, there wasn’t that much pushback, because the baseline was kept fairly intact. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah absolutely. My views has always been that ganking needs to have an active counter mechanic to be a reasonable game mechanic. Success should be based more on the skills of the people interacting at the time that a predetermined mathematical formula of damage vs EHP. This would be the preferred outcome, but keep in mind that it will actually lead to an _increase_ in ganking due to the ignorance/noncompetitive nature that ganking targets usually possess. It’s like when CCP made that massive pass on mining barges, but players to this day are still not choosing to fit them defensively at the expense of yield. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s more to do with whether or not people enjoy the process. It’s about enjoying the ride not the outcome. A good competitive mechanic will entertain both sides during the engagement even if one is dissatisfied with the result. This sounds good on paper, but is impossible to accomplish in practice in an environment where people _lose progress_. This isn’t like a sport, where two teams meet, and one wins while the other doesn’t. The nature of EVE’s PvP requires the element of setback. While people can grow to tolerate that, no one ever grows to enjoy it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Did you think that was actually a justification for a mugging? It’s a fairly accurate statement of some of the reasons that drive people to commit a mugging but it’s still in no way justified. That wasn’t the consideration, though. The consideration is whether the criminal enjoyed the act. Well, in EVE, criminals almost exclusively enjoy it, while in real life, most criminals actually _don’t_ enjoy it. This is, of course, an extension of the argument for why killing people in a video game doesn’t make someone a sociopath or psychopath in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Tharvus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tharvus/32/246994_2.png) [@Tharvus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tharvus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/56 "2021-01-13T11:24:16Z")
Warping happens if you reach 75% of your max speed while going in the direction you want to warp to. Normally reaching 75% takes a lot of time especially so in the case of Freighters. Lets assume a base speed of 100m/s, for ease of use. So that freighter would have to reach 75m/s to warp and that will take like 40 seconds or so. But after a few seconds he’s already doing, say, 18 m/s so if he then suddenly gets double webbed while doing “a bit” of speed, his max speed drops from 100m/s to ~20m/s and then SUDDENLY his current speed is more than enough, more than 75% of his max speed, to warp. So what happens is the freighter aligns and after a few seconds you drop 2 webs on it and it just “fucks off” instantly. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/57 "2021-01-13T11:30:45Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Concord was there to be the punishment for committing any crime. Yes, but why program the game to allow crime in the first place and also program a feet to punish people committing crime, if you could much easier _make it impossible_ to do crime instead? CCP clearly indended crime to happen, and then punish them, instead of preventing crime. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/58 "2021-01-13T11:34:00Z")
> [@Tharvus](#): > > So what happens is the freighter aligns and after a few seconds you drop 2 webs on it and it just “fucks off” instantly. no, you can apply the webs instantly. Use 3 webs or serp ship. all the other modules should be made for instant lock(1 tick) of the freighter. So you freighter aligns, 1s after that it is locked, 1s after that it’s in warp. (it’s 1s because the initial align is just always after a tick) ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/59 "2021-01-13T11:36:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Concord was there to be the punishment for committing any crime. Which literally means that a criminal killing his target was intended from the very beginning of the game. Which literally means that your claim about it being emergent gameplay, is in total opposition to the facts. You are LYING because you know those fact since you make a claim about them not existing. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/62 "2021-01-13T11:40:13Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You are LYING Careful with such statements! Even if the other party is completely wrong, it may be that they do believe their own claims. And lying implies saying false things _intentionally_. _Edited name out_ may not be lying - perhaps he’s just not very bright. Edit after getting flagged: Apparently it is inappropriate when I say that someone may not be lying when they believe their own nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/63 "2021-01-13T11:41:33Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > And lying implies intentionally saying false things. He is. He claims that concord was not “thought of” while it requires more time to code concord rather than just prevent the criminal actions. He is also lying, because he was told that several times already and just want to distort the meaning of the terms in order to make himself right even when he is wrong. He was told that his interpretations is invalid and does not care, so he KNOWS. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/65 "2021-01-13T11:44:03Z")
Oh I’m not trying anymore, I already said what I thought was needed. And this was not an attack to you, this was an argument against the other party that you apparenty blocked. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/66 "2021-01-13T11:45:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 That is the fallacy they usually choose yes. As with all slippery slopes my view is that you don’t simply reject all changes based on a fear that one day there might be a change that is bad as that just leads to a fear of change. > > Overall ganking has received vastly more buffs than nerfs. It hasn’t. The only direct buff to ganking I can think of is tags, which, for a cost, allows greater freedom of movement for gankers in certain situations (useful for battlecruiser-level ganks against extremely valuable targets). For the most part, this is a feature of limited utility. The only other “buffs” to ganking were _indirect_, because they dealt with ship stats for combat ships that have more utility than just ganking. Feel free to name any other buffs you can think of. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m fine with that. For now. Once it comes to pass, you will regress to your anchor argument that ganking has to go because of player dissatisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/67 "2021-01-13T11:48:41Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The only other “buffs” to ganking were _indirect_, because they dealt with ship stats. strawman. He did not specify direct, so yes ganking has received buffs recently, and massively more buffs than nerfs. For example, the last update with torps buffs buffed all the torps ships, even if the ships’ stats were not changed. The reduction of resists patch did buff ganking, because now most ships lost EHPs so became cheaper to gank. The increase in DPS for void also was a buff to ganking, for the same reasons as above. However it does not mean that there is an issue with ganking receiving buffs. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/69 "2021-01-13T11:54:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s why I think ganking needs play and counterplay, and it’s why in think banning input broadcasting was a bad replacement for just making gameplay active enough that it’s impossible to coordinate large numbers of accounts even with the software. My view is always that gameplay should be more active and engaging. I agree that gameplay should be more active and engaging, but I don’t see what that has to do with the ban on input broadcasting. Why one or the other? That’s a false choice, we need both. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872.md?page=4)