# Fix this CCP. You keep losing players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872 "2021-01-13T05:55:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/70 "2021-01-13T11:58:44Z")
I dont understand. In a game where you can do the thing (shoot someone because you want to), how would the devs NOT have forseen people doing the thing? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/72 "2021-01-13T11:59:46Z")
CCP created the universe, suddenly people were doing the thing. Emergent gameplay!! ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/73 "2021-01-13T12:00:27Z")
Yes. But why not both? (Sounds to me like you want input broadcasting back. Why?) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/74 "2021-01-13T12:03:39Z")
Then the planning and counter play that is done to prevent a gank is also emergent gameplay. I dont see what the contention is here. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/76 "2021-01-13T12:06:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ah, I see, so you’re only counting direct buffs to an emergent mechanic that CCP has so far refused too directly balance. That seems rather dishonest. You don’t even consider the void damage upgrade to be a direct buff so your definition of direct seems to be overly specific too. Okay, then make a list. Even if we take indirect buffs as buffs at face value, we have: - Tags - Close-range ammo buff - Hardener nerf (which affects a very small amount of edge cases, because most ganks are done against targets that aren’t actively hardened in armor/shields) - The addition of tier 3 BCs The latter three are all juxtaposed with the huge amount of EHP buffs to pretty much everything over the years, including multiple EHP increases to industrial ships, the creation of damage controls, a **massive** blanket EHP buff some time around 2007, et cetera. Plus, all of the various CONCORD buffs, maneuvering nerfs, insurance changes, sec status loss increases, creation/removal of special ship mechanics like ship bay nerfs and changing blockade runners to be unscannable, input broadcasting, etc. etc. When we compare the buffs with the nerfs, there were many more of the latter, and their individual impact was heavier. If you have any more buffs to add, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/77 "2021-01-13T12:07:07Z")
Maybe you’re going slightly off topic there 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/78 "2021-01-13T12:08:44Z")
PROVE ME I AM WRONG ! (don’t, I already know why I am) ---
**Author:** ![Drammie\_Askold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drammie_askold/32/380085_2.png) [@Drammie\_Askold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drammie_Askold)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/79 "2021-01-13T12:08:58Z")
To use an analogy I see gankers as being like sharks in real world oceans. They are potentially dangerous so you take precautions. Sometimes, even with the precautions shark attacks happen. However throwing chum in the water just before swimming is not a good idea. The OP effectively did this. In the real world sharks are an important part of the ecosystem, and I would argue that gankers are an important part of the Eve ecosystem. I don’t gank but I am a target as I go about moving things from one place to another. Every journey I undertake makes me wonder if I will get to my destination or if my precautions will fail me. This adds anticipation and excitement to the journey. If gankers didn’t exist any voyage in high-sec would become utterly boring and I would just use auto-pilot and forget about my ship. Currently I never auto-pilot. I don’t want to be ganked, but every successful voyage becomes a minor victory and is part of my enjoyment of Eve. Long may it continue. As to ganking being a ‘crime’, in the world of Eve, we are all immortal demi-gods who tend towards amorality. Crime? Good? Evil? These are concepts for lesser beings. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/80 "2021-01-13T12:14:17Z")
> [@Levi\_Devereaux](#): > > This community so starved for content they grief a returning player. What makes a returning player less of a suitable target than any other? In what way can you identify a returning player? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/81 "2021-01-13T12:14:43Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > In what way can you identify a returning player? The amount of salt he drops. Kill them all. CCP will know his own. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/83 "2021-01-13T12:25:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I explained why not both. Not only does it put people at risk of a ban who do nothing wrong, the simple act of banning input broadcasting reduces the likelihood of CCP actually fixing the gameplay. Well if input broadcasting is against the rules, the people who do it aren’t doing ‘nothing wrong’. And for clarity: this is not the ingame roleplay equivalent of against the rules like ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/85 "2021-01-13T12:29:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You can, but you’ll most certainly be curating that list to fit your agenda. We’ve jumped through these hoops before and every time there’s overwhelming evidence that ganking has been buffed vastly mroe than it’s been nerfed and every time gankers sit there and dismiss all of the buffs as not counting for whatver arbitary reason they come up with on the spot. Then you’re just avoiding the discussion. If you don’t want to, that’s fine, but at the same time don’t expect me or anyone else to accept your claim that there were more buffs than nerfs to ganking, while rejecting my list, and refusing to present your own. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/86 "2021-01-13T12:31:14Z")
Luckily the vast majority of EVE players has 0.00% chance to fall on the wrong side of that margin of error. Maybe stop trying to sit on that edge of input broadcasting? ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/88 "2021-01-13T12:32:14Z")
To late… this topic/thread has been Kell’ed. Like so many other… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/89 "2021-01-13T12:34:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So to you it’s fine to not bother fixing gameplay mechanics and to ban players who do nothing wrong because you won’t be one of the players banned. Liar, that’s not what he wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/90 "2021-01-13T12:34:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So to you it’s fine to not bother fixing gameplay mechanics and to ban players who do nothing wrong because you won’t be one of the players banned. No, I said that I support your idea that gameplay should be made more engaging and active. But I also support the ban on input broadcasting. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/91 "2021-01-13T12:35:13Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you want to claim victory If you’re refusing to engage, then yes, I will. I was quite open to putting the buffs and nerfs on a scale for objective evaluation. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/92 "2021-01-13T12:39:52Z")
Then you should evaluate the price modification to kill specific fits based on the sub value, also using inflation IRL. eg in 2010 it costed X M to kill 100k EHP in .5, which translated to Y at this time, therefore to Z present . (average inflation is ×1.02 per year so Z=Y×1.02^(2021-year) ) ---
**Author:** ![Miranda\_Farron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miranda_farron/32/250852_2.png) [@Miranda\_Farron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miranda_Farron)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/93 "2021-01-13T12:40:43Z")
> [@Drammie\_Askold](#): > > To use an analogy I see gankers as being like sharks in real world oceans. They are potentially dangerous so you take precautions. Sometimes, even with the precautions shark attacks happen. However throwing chum in the water just before swimming is not a good idea. The OP effectively did this. > > In the real world sharks are an important part of the ecosystem, and I would argue that gankers are an important part of the Eve ecosystem. I don’t gank but I am a target as I go about moving things from one place to another. Every journey I undertake makes me wonder if I will get to my destination or if my precautions will fail me. This adds anticipation and excitement to the journey. If gankers didn’t exist any voyage in high-sec would become utterly boring and I would just use auto-pilot and forget about my ship. Currently I never auto-pilot. I don’t want to be ganked, but every successful voyage becomes a minor victory and is part of my enjoyment of Eve. Long may it continue. /thread ---
**Author:** ![Goe\_Rilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goe_rilla/32/360069_2.png) [@Goe\_Rilla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Goe_Rilla)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872/94 "2021-01-13T12:53:21Z")
> [@Levi\_Devereaux](#): > > Been back 2 days after not playing Eve in years. Did a basic trade run from Jita to Hek. Not with 15-20 bil in cargo, but around 1.6. Had inertia stabilizers and was webbing with an alt. Cheap throwaway 30ish catalysts pop me in about 5 seconds. > > This community so starved for content they grief a returning player. > CCP just lost another customer. No, player bleeding in this game does not come from poor freighter trip management. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/fix-this-ccp-you-keep-losing-players/289872.md?page=5)