# For Folks who are 'Leaving' **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893 "2021-09-27T04:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/586 "2021-10-25T12:40:22Z")
Often without any changes that should result from the test period or feedback. In short: feelings spawn a change, facts are not allowed to modify the change in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/587 "2021-10-25T13:22:16Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I doubt I will be running for the next term for the CSM It’s a thankless job for the most part, but that is bad news. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/588 "2021-10-25T13:27:16Z")
What I tend to think is that the artistic vision for Eve has evaporated and that’s what ‘chaos’ has been trying to hide. For me, personally, I just don’t see any developer who gives me the impression they’re in love with the classic Eve concept and so development has become more, shall we say, flexible in its target audience. It takes a person with a commitment to a future vision to keep things on track. It is said that a statue was always in the stone, but that the creator removed all the extra bits. The creator sees that statue in the stone as she works. If she let the audience tell her how to chisel before the work was complete, it is likely to degrade the quality of the final product. An artist can still take critique that enhances their vision, but they have to have that vision to know what critique is useful in realizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/589 "2021-10-25T13:52:00Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I doubt I will be running for the next term for the CSM Which is a shame as I feel this thread shows you are the hero this city needs, though we do not deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/590 "2021-10-25T16:48:19Z")
Ok? Not entirely sure why you’re directing your feedback at me, but I’m sure someone at CCP has read the points you’re making and taking a note. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/591 "2021-10-25T17:07:40Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I doubt I will be running for the next term for the CSM I hope you do run for the next term, out of all the past and present CSM members, you’re the best representative the playerbase has ever had. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/592 "2021-10-25T17:38:26Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > Bit of a strawman, you linked listening to feedback with implementing player suggested changes. These are not the same thing. You’re right, they _aren’t_ the same thing. But in this thread we’re talking about the stuff people post when they leave, and that’s most certainly not feedback, but _ultimatums_. In your post that I responded to, you specifically said: > [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > hence why listening to feedback from those leaving is probably quite a sound approach. Can you truly label what those people post as feedback? Most of those posts trash-talk the devs and/or the community, and threaten to not come back to the game unless specific changes are made (e.g. “I will not play this trash game until scarcity is removed and mining yields are doubled”). That’s not feedback. Feedback would be doing something like mathematically going through the yield tables and explaining some kind of lack of balance that needs to be addressed (e.g. that due to space population differentials some mineral will be in disproportionately short supply), but none of those raging whiners do _that_ and you _know_ it. Players who _do_ do that don’t post whiny rage-quit threads. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/593 "2021-10-25T17:47:48Z")
> [@Gabriel\_Eban](#): > > Finish that off with a famously poor community I did give like ypur post. But i do not agree with this … If i am here today and still having hard time to leave …even after i quit the game months ago … because of the beautifull comunity i love and care… and having struggle to seperate … First most and last thing in eve that even i took it out with me was the community… I seriously dont believe any other gaming community exist that much old and strong … It is not only pleasure and victories but also our pain and misery in single univers ties all of us together ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/594 "2021-10-25T17:52:45Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Can you truly label what those people post as feedback? Most of those posts trash-talk the devs and/or the community, and threaten to not come back to the game unless specific changes are made (e.g. “I will not play this trash game until scarcity is removed and mining yields are doubled”). That’s not feedback. Feedback would be doing something like mathematically going through the yield tables and explaining some kind of lack of balance that needs to be addressed (e.g. that due to space population differentials some mineral will be in disproportionately short supply), but none of those raging whiners do _that_ and you _know_ it. Players who _do_ do that don’t post whiny rage-quit threads. Cmoon destiny , Because they think nobody give ■■■■ … Only idiots like me sit and write 15 page essay and toss it … then trolls makes thread closed… ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/595 "2021-10-25T20:34:19Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I doubt I will be running for the next term for the CSM Any word on training a protege? There absolutely needs to be at least one well-respected member on the CSM who advocates for the rookies. I would volunteer, but I fear I am too immature for such a position. Even if the CSM is bunk, you are the bomb dot com, Mike. I sincerely hope you will be able to pass on what you know and what you have done to someone who can continue carrying to torch for the wayward rookie, as I once was and still somewhat am. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/596 "2021-10-25T20:49:40Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > What I tend to think is that the artistic vision for Eve has evaporated and that’s what ‘chaos’ has been trying to hide. For me, personally, I just don’t see any developer who gives me the impression they’re in love with the classic Eve concept and so development has become more, shall we say, flexible in its target audience. It takes a person with a commitment to a future vision to keep things on track. But its the same old thing with most games. I hated Morrowind because it was an absurdly complex menu system…yet some love it for that very reason and say its the best Elder Scrolls. But inevitably games get dumbed down in order to attract more people, and in my view that is not a bad thing as long as the in-game atmosphere in enhanced too. The games that fall by the wayside are those where they dumb down yet add nothing substantially new. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/597 "2021-10-25T21:36:55Z")
> [@Ricky\_Tock](#): > > training a protege ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/5/6f5dae236d9fd6ad2b6d5fa8640fa397c18b53fa.jpeg) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/598 "2021-10-25T22:11:30Z")
When Jun Gul Jim and Obi Wan took Anakin to meet Yoda, and if Yoda had said yes, there would have been three. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/599 "2021-10-26T07:00:26Z")
The Elder Scrolls series are not games I’ve played so I can’t comment on them or relate to the example given. My opinion is just my opinion and even I consider it to be a lightly educated guess instead of incontrovertible fact, but I do think it is a problem that CCP doesn’t give me enough evidence to rule it out. A wise person always remains open to changing their mind if presented with new evidence, though. I can’t find the original source in the time I have, but there is a blog or some such by CCP that talks about scenes players noticed in game with NPCs fighting each other. They said that they wanted to create a living universe and part of that vision was NPCs fighting each other. That, to me, is counter to the original Eve vision. I think Eve is supposed to be a living universe, but of players. I used to think of it as this. I used to have to worry about some goober taking the ore from my cans, or some nut-jobs declaring war on me for no more reason than because I was there. I had other players around me worried about the same things to commiserate with. Fighting was cheap. Losing was cheap. Shinanigans would abound. You could never be certain of what was around the corner. NPCs shooting each other is a part of the Eve statue I think they could chisel away and I wouldn’t miss it, but I do miss the players it seems they’ve chiseled off that would have made these ‘living’ NPCs they were briefly pround of redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/600 "2021-10-26T07:21:53Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Can you truly label what those people post as feedback? Yes, it is feedback. We know CCP ask for feedback when someone unsubscribes so I’m sure the forum posts are read, much like any other post. Whether the feedback holds any weight is debateable. You need to understand that suppressing perspectives on the forum in some kind of purveyor of reason and defender of feedback you deem appropriate isn’t really achieving anything. I can’t imagine CCP care for these little debates about which feedback is good feedback, they’ll be the judge of that. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/601 "2021-10-26T09:01:00Z")
What I think is that the devs read the rage-quit “feedback” in between shots of Brennivin during conference room power lunches, and the only reason they’re not trying to maximize the forum’s tear volume is because they’re trying to maintain some level of balance in which aggrieved EVE rejects don’t start buying plane tickets to Iceland to try to _murder_ some of them. It’s not feedback. CCP most certainly doesn’t _consider_ it as feedback. At best, they consider it as statistics. And the little drop-down menu at the subscription cancellation screen isn’t what we’re discussing here. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/602 "2021-10-26T09:22:09Z")
Interestingly, I couldnt find any leaving threads to compare “Im leaving because the game is difficult, here are my suggestions” And “Ermagerd gankers are scum who should die thanks for nothing ccp” type posts ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/603 "2021-10-26T09:40:47Z")
Just browse the negative Steam reviews and compare the ratio of the two. It’s something like 1:100. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/604 "2021-10-26T09:45:44Z")
Im more concerned how both sorts are now missing from the forum… ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/605 "2021-10-26T10:04:24Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > > > I doubt I will be running for the next term for the CSM > > Which is a shame as I feel this thread shows you are the hero this city needs, though we do not deserve. Mike is continuing to serve admirably and has just provided a template on how to announce an exit with-out drama. All while giving ample opportunity for suggestions and modifications of thought. You _are_ an exemplar sir. To my mind Mike represents what EVE — _emporium vicis educator_ — needs the most; **stability**. Thank you for your service thus far Mike, they will just have to paddle all the harder without you leaning on the tiller. o7 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893.md?page=27)