# For Folks who are 'Leaving' **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893 "2021-09-27T04:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/103 "2021-09-27T20:54:52Z")
> [@JayEm\_HighCastle](#): > > Any good business listens to the customer base. People who leave are not the customer base. A good business must specialize, and cannot cater to everyone. Your claim to be “quite experienced” is not supported by your naive generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![Elle\_Mendez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elle_mendez/32/297262_2.png) [@Elle\_Mendez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elle_Mendez)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/104 "2021-09-27T20:57:36Z")
Feedback from a dissatisfied customer could be some of the most important you will ever get. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/105 "2021-09-27T21:00:36Z")
Losers complain endlessly. Feedback from a happy customer is more useful. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/106 "2021-09-27T21:00:38Z")
> [@JayEm\_HighCastle](#): > > Any good business listens to the customer base. > [@JayEm\_HighCastle](#): > > I am quite experienced in business. Both of these cannot be true. Disney, Mattel and Hasbro would love them to both be true, and have become very bad at business because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Pehatpsegk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pehatpsegk/32/288619_2.png) [@Pehatpsegk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pehatpsegk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/107 "2021-09-27T21:07:56Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > …I think not paying sends the stronger message. It’s the only way I can cast my vote on the matter in a way that affects the people making the decision. Although I kinda agree with some of the stuff you said in that post, I disagree with this part. Our ol’ pal Hilmar made something like 30 million US$ when he sold his share of ccp stock to PA when they bought ccp games. Do you really think you are punishing him by not subbing? If PA decided to shutdown EvE tomorrow, Hilmar could just spend a month sitting in a lawnchair on a black sand Iceland beach in a parka and sipping weird Iceland yoghurt-beer and not worry one bit about EvE. I don’t think PA is affected by anybody not subbing to EvE either. I think they paid $425 million for ccp as part of a possible play to position into the potentially highly lucrative China smartphone game market. (a fairly clever business risk, actually) EvE is just extra money for them so why not keep it going unless it becomes a liability? I’m afraid you’re not really punishing the people making the decisions on EvE by not subbing. EvE is no longer the passion project that birthed it and kept it going and is no longer dependent on revenue from subs/plex to “keep the doors open”. I’m grateful to Hilmar and associates for making such a great game in which I’ve had so much fun…but of course nothing lasts forever. Personally I’m gonna ride it out some and see what happens. I have no expectations so can’t be disappointed anymore. Maybe come back and ride it out/down also, Qia? _Arise, arise, Riders of New Eden! hull shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered, a conflag-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin and the world’s ending! Death! Death! Death! Forth Eorlingas!_ If this is to be our end, then let us make such an end as to be worthy of remembrance ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/8/8878fd38afd9fd21b0751bf3b5993977b7d5eb8b.gif) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/7/b/b7b4a4069b81c38e612c4c62d6fe654eb197bba1.gif) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/f/ff4bfc9a88b4cd71b34e315e94241c68c088b8ef.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![JayEm\_HighCastle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayem_highcastle/32/395581_2.png) [@JayEm\_HighCastle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JayEm_HighCastle)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/108 "2021-09-27T21:12:14Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > People who leave are not the customer base. > > A good business must specialize, and cannot cater to everyone. Your claim to be “quite experienced” is not supported by your naive generalizations. Then it’s a fundamental flaw in the game’s design from conception. You are saying there can’t be both safe industry **and** PVP in the same universe. That’s a dilemma. Like it or not there are a LOT of very good people who came to EVE for the industry and economics of it, who are perfectly happy not engaging in PVP. It is not catering to a few malcontents to provide the in-game mechanics for these people to enjoy what they want to do (which is also fundamental to the EVE economic structure). ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/109 "2021-09-27T21:13:19Z")
Man, look. We don’t care. CCP doesn’t care. Thanks for your input. Nobody cares. ---
**Author:** ![JayEm\_HighCastle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayem_highcastle/32/395581_2.png) [@JayEm\_HighCastle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JayEm_HighCastle)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/110 "2021-09-27T21:13:48Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Feedback from a happy customer is more useful. That’s what’s known as an “echo chamber”. Only hearing the positive things you want to hear, refusing to hear constructive criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/111 "2021-09-27T21:17:03Z")
That response is a poster child for irony. Also your premise is highly flawed in several areas. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/112 "2021-09-27T21:20:06Z")
> [@JayEm\_HighCastle](#): > > Any good business listens to the customer base. I can’t say that most things happening in EVE are in response to any base. (Understanding base as some… thing built for a period (…) and that has endured in time based on recurrent customer’s confidence by product reliability). I might be wrong, but I don’t think there is a 10% of such “player base” in this forum. All I see is noobland oriented efforts… If that’s what we’re talking about, perhaps the name must change… It would not be a player base but a constant projection of new (and potential player base) players influx. If that is the case, then EVE IS INDEED listening to their customers, but not to a player base. And in that effort, I recon it’s quite optimal. Discussing on this game’s ability to evolve towards retaining customers by considering the potential of “leaving” and ways to avoid it, is futile. There is no such thing as an effort to retain anyone, no player base. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/113 "2021-09-27T21:24:46Z")
> [@JayEm\_HighCastle](#): > > hear constructive criticism. This thread isn’t really about constructive criticism. It’s about people who post leaving threads, the aim of which isn’t really to be constructive at all - it’s to vent, seek justification and to harm EVE and CCP. CCP knows who it’s customers are; and it isn’t 100% of the gaming community. People are always trying to encourage CCP to change the game into something it isn’t, and that type of feedback/criticism isn’t useful. It’s better off dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/114 "2021-09-27T21:37:30Z")
I’m not trying to punish people. I made a decision that, while infinitesimally small, has a measurable impact that data nerds might be able to see. I’m under no illusion I am anything more than one data point among many. I’m not under the illusion that CCP is really going to care what I do. I do what I feel is right for me, but I do not object at all to people choosing to do what’s right for them. I am glad you’re doing what is right for you and not letting me talk you out of it. I hope the game goes on for as long as there are people who enjoy it. I do appreciate the invitation to come back and ride it out. You are the only person to express any desire to change my mind as opposed to just being sorry to see me go. It is always nice to know I’m welcome and it brightened my day that you spent the time and effort to tell me so. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/115 "2021-09-27T22:26:34Z")
You’re a CSM member and you wrote this? This is literally Exhibit A in almost all ‘goodbye, Eve’ posts. The only reason I’m still around Eve Online is because I still identify with the good old days where the game was a female dog to learn. You got your Ibis and a kick out into space with a ‘Good Luck, Mother Violator! o/’. But you also got a ‘Friggin Heck YEAH, buddy! You’re doing it!!’ when you were still logging in after accepting a courier contract for the first time in your Badger that took you deep into nullsec 30 jumps, not having a clue about what high/low/nullsec even were… or how the hell you actually made it to the station without losing everything, only to find that you didn’t have docking rights… …and then one ship undocks and locks you and begins a conversation in local chat. Then ship after ship, frigate to titan shows up on grid to point you to the tune of 35-40. Then the screen goes dark and you have no idea what is happening because you just wanted to play to fly a Scorpion because that’s what you saw in an ad and just happened to have been newly redesigned (Apocrypha)… There used to be a pride in defeating the infamous Eve Online learning curve. It was one of the greatest OG memes because it was so true… bulldozing bodies of those who couldn’t cut it off of the insurmountable cliff. There has always been a level of arrogance though… this level that consumes all of the sheep and then the ‘wolves’ cry about all the sheep either not being around anymore or simply not wanting to comply with the ‘wolves’ and their self-professed way to play the game. It amazes me how when the question of ‘how do we keep players around?’ comes up (every week basically), the old null bloc metas are NEVER questioned. Then a CSM member comes onto the forum to mock the players who came to play a game that was not even remotely honest about it’s promise. It is axiomatic. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/117 "2021-09-27T22:54:01Z")
> [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > Then a CSM member comes onto the forum to mock the players who came to play a game that was not even remotely honest about it’s promise. I was not aware that my tone was ‘mocking’. And I am not asking why they leave but why they have a total meltdown in the process of leaving. There ARE other folks who manage to leave but the maintain their assets and explain in a calm manner the whys and wherefores of their departure. Some of them do wo directly to me, others to CCP, some even on the forums or r/eve. I appreciate those people because even though they are leaving? They are trying t make it a better game with or without them. No, if I am mocking I tend to be really blatant about it. This thread is not meant to mock. m ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/118 "2021-09-28T00:05:49Z")
Removed an off topic post. ---
**Author:** ![Complex\_Math](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/complex_math/32/378387_2.png) [@Complex\_Math](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Complex_Math)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/119 "2021-09-28T01:22:11Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > It is always nice to know I’m welcome For what it’s worth, I’d root for you to come back. I didn’t believe we’ve crossed paths in game- but in the forums- you’re one of the voices I’ve respected. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/120 "2021-09-28T03:08:29Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > If you are hoping to change the game, make the devs listen then let me assure you a tantrum is not the way to go about it. See that’s the problem. The devs do listen. They listen to the hordes, the blocs, the forum brigades, the crybabies, the loudmouths, and other nefarious nabobs. They should have just had a vision for the game and stuck to it. The golden age of Eve was when it was more of an open book that people who are not loudmouths or bloc members could make their own way any way and at their own pace. Then came these “visions”, and “balances”, and these overhauls making things easier. We didn’t want easier. Crybabies and quick-gratification types who were never told “no” in their lives wanted easier. And they spent more time wanting easier than learning how to get good. Ultimately there comes a time when voting with your wallet is the only one that counts. Don’t fault people for that. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > So if you are going to go? Go. But you might be missing out on what Eve is. Maybe that is why you are leaving. You never did ‘get it’ in the first place. We’re missing out on what Eve WAS. Hello? Why even have a CSM at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/121 "2021-09-28T04:38:54Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > We’re missing out on what Eve WAS. I have been here for 13+ years, lots of people make me seem like a late comer to the party. Which ‘what Eve WAS’ are you referring to? When was this game perfect? m ---
**Author:** ![Obed\_Marshh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/obed_marshh/32/459118_2.png) [@Obed\_Marshh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Obed_Marshh)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/122 "2021-09-28T04:53:10Z")
After wormholes, but before alpha. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 5:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893/123 "2021-09-28T05:13:14Z")
Before we got structures, Rorquals, capital rebalance … in short: Before CCP got this stupid idea that everything should be “active gameplay”. Why? Because CCP did not change the game to accommodate “active gameplay” in areas where it never was designed to be that active. They just slapped “active” on top of the existing gameplay elements without caring at all for consequences and of course that led to disaster. After the first things were done in that direction, CCP released all breaks and well full bonkers mode with it, deepening the disaster. And then, 2 years ago, they became aware of that this is not “healthy” and started blaming the players for ruining the game (Rattati) and that CCP had to take drastic measures to reign in and “fix” it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-folks-who-are-leaving/329893.md?page=7)