# For need of ISK Sinks, Tax online Structures **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [July 4, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634 "2017-07-04T16:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Do\_Little](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/do_little/32/411571_2.png) [@Do\_Little](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Do_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/42 "2017-07-30T07:58:15Z")
I think CCP knows they have a problem and there are lots of levers they can adjust. For ratting, I personally would like to see 2 changes: - Baselines. If a baseline ship is expected to clear a site in a given amount of time - the minimum respawn interval should be that plus 5 minutes. This caps the payout for that site to the baseline rate - you can’t earn more by clearing the site faster. - Smarter, adaptive rats. PVE should require situational awareness and tactical management to succeed. An AFK ratter should be a dead ratter. ---
**Author:** ![Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sethyrh_nakrar/32/12695_2.png) [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sethyrh_Nakrar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/43 "2017-07-30T13:16:30Z")
> [@Do\_Little](#): > > An AFK ratter should be a dead ratter. As I wrote in another thread. Where I live, an AFK-ratter dies pretty fast. So the problem on that point lies elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/44 "2017-07-31T12:18:13Z")
> [@Do\_Little](#): > > Smarter, adaptive rats. PVE should require situational awareness and tactical management to succeed. An AFK ratter should be a dead ratter. ^ Absolutely this. CCP finally needs to do something about that. It’s absolutely unreasonable that a 1 week old char can afk-rat in a VNI for absolutely insane ticks into their super in short time. Forcing people to react to smarter rats might just be the best solution for the insane ISK faucet we have in Null right now. It doesn’t require fiddling with anything else, which is a plus too. Personally I’d also like NPCs to drop on Capitals and attack Structures in Sov Null, but that doesn’t seem to find many friends 😃 > [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](#): > > An AFK ratter should be a dead ratter. > > As I wrote in another thread. Where I live, an AFK-ratter dies pretty fast. So the problem on that point lies elsewhere. You say: were you live, it happens. Okay, but it doesn’t happen everywhere and surely not by NPC mechanics. AFK-ratters should die because the rats themselves will kill them due to not adapting to their tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/45 "2017-08-04T15:29:03Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Forcing people to react to smarter rats might just be the best solution for the insane ISK faucet we have in Null right now. It doesn’t require fiddling with anything else, which is a plus too. This would prevent any drone boat ratting even if it’s not done AFK. > [@Dior\_Ambraelle](#): > > My idea is reducing the bounty payed by Concord in null to 10%, but at the same time allow the sov holders to pay part of or all the remaining 90% or even more. At that point, why would I go through all the hassle of holding space if I can’t profit from it? ---
**Author:** ![Dior\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dior_ambraelle/32/393685_2.png) [@Dior\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dior_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/46 "2017-08-04T18:25:08Z")
You could make profit by collecting the loot and salvage maybe? Aside from the overseer, people not really collecting any of the loot and nearly never salvage as much as I know. Yes, the overseer’s gift box is often the most valuable item, but in null the salvage should give a quite decent extra too. Also, it was mentioned Do\_Little that the money doesn’t really “circulate” in the meaning of corporations paying people to do jobs like keeping the defense multipliers high, they only profit from everything without doing basically anything. This is why null is able to print money so easily. My idea would change that. And why do you need a reason to have your own territory? Does it have real benefits other than showing off how strong and rich you are? ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/47 "2017-08-04T18:32:04Z")
> [@Dior\_Ambraelle](#): > > people not really collecting any of the loot and nearly never salvage as much as I know. Lots of people financed their first carrier in Delve by looting and salvaging in Delve. If you follow good ratters, it’s better income than ratting by yourself in some case. If you “force” all ratter to loot and salvage for income with your change, you effectively kill a new guy income source. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/48 "2017-08-05T04:46:05Z")
> [@Frostys\_Virpio](#): > > Lots of people financed their first carrier in Delve by looting and salvaging in Delve. If you follow good ratters, it’s better income than ratting by yourself in some case. If you “force” all ratter to loot and salvage for income with your change, you effectively kill a new guy income source. This is _a_ newguy income source. There are almost as many ways to make money as a newer player in Null as there are new players in Null. If this goes away then it’ll be exploration, or belt ratting, or just doing anoms in a Battleship, or in a group, or mining, or getting paid commission to loot someone’s anoms, or… See what I mean? Heck I remember when the best thing you could do for newbie income (like, 1 week newbie) in the whole game was run around in High Sec salvaging missions in a Destroyer. That’s long gone as a top tier income source for new players, but the new players have adapted and the game has moved on. ---
**Author:** ![Georgiy\_Giggle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/georgiy_giggle/32/342478_2.png) [@Georgiy\_Giggle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Georgiy_Giggle)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/49 "2017-08-28T10:51:33Z")
You already paying fuel for market service. So no need in nonsense taxes. Because if you implement this taxes you gonna same as happening in real life - you will kill small corporation and alliance because they can not pay so much for their amount of citadels. Big alliances are not giving a ■■■■ because they do offline moon harvesting (I’m glad it will be gone soon). ---
**Author:** ![Acac\_Sunflyier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/acac_sunflyier/32/403457_2.png) [@Acac\_Sunflyier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Acac_Sunflyier)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/50 "2017-09-02T02:42:05Z")
> Fuel is not an ISK Sink. Yes it is (sorta). It depends if they’re bought and sold on the market versus donated to a corp hangar. Importing/exporting them “hides” the sink in sales tax on the blocks themselves, the isotopes purchased for the JF, and the cynos it takes to get the blocks in position. ---
**Author:** ![Col\_Crunch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/col_crunch/32/381390_2.png) [@Col\_Crunch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Col_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/51 "2017-09-26T09:05:28Z")
Don’t forget pi taxes and cost of production ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/52 "2017-09-26T09:20:38Z")
The only ISK sink in fuel is when it, or it’s manufacturing components are bought and sold on the market. If I mine ice and turn it into fuel with my own PI from POCO’s at 0% tax I have paid no tax. If I then sell that fuel in a private trade with my corp or another trusted entity there is no tax. Fuel is not an ISK since in itself, it just transfers ISK to the producer of the fuel. It would be better to identify the largest ISK faucets and then moderate those if ISK generation is too high. Adding in new ridiculous taxes does not help, it just alienates those who suddenly have to start paying it. Which would typically be smaller, newer groups since the larger groups would largely circumvent or simply absorb them without noticing. A better approach may be to amend bounties to be paid out partly as LP, and then push more items into LP stores as BPC’s and/or finished products at a higher LP cost. This way the ISK generated from the LP items most likely passes through many hands before becoming a usable item which is ultimately likely to be destroyed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/53 "2017-09-26T11:21:31Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > it just alienates those who suddenly have to start paying it ☹ or single players that want to sell a high-value item and have to pay the price for goons ruining the game with sooper doopers in asteroid belts, doing 10457389067279562956278956865279567935689067926505 havens and santums per minute in only 93080672806785672057805100285720572 cheat accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/54 "2017-09-26T11:38:03Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > ☹ or single players that want to sell a high-value item and have to pay the price for goons ruining the game with sooper doopers in asteroid belts, doing 10457389067279562956278956865279567935689067926505 havens and santums per minute in only 93080672806785672057805100285720572 cheat accounts. But apart from that… ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/55 "2017-09-26T16:46:28Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > cheat accounts. You got a definition for that? ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/56 "2017-09-26T21:03:00Z")
> [@Frostys\_Virpio](#): > > You got a definition for that? Pretty sure the definition used here is whichever one is funniest… ---
**Author:** ![Constantine\_III](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/constantine_iii/32/27624_2.png) [@Constantine\_III](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Constantine_III)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634/57 "2017-09-26T21:26:49Z")
Yeah… Goons are the problem, you know except for all the ■■■■■■■ ISboxer’s out in the drone lands. The people who are actually playing the game legitimately are the problem; If eve dies goons win forever; if eve doesn’t die goons still win and can rat and jew it up for life. So regardless of what happens goons win. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-need-of-isk-sinks-tax-online-structures/8634.md?page=2)