# For those who accuse CCP of Making Eve Online 'Pay to Win' **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197 "2019-07-11T17:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/1 "2019-07-11T17:42:02Z")
[‘The kids emptied our bank account playing Fifa’](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48908766) _That_ is ‘pay-to-win’… ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/2 "2019-07-11T17:46:20Z")
to na gry, wiec to nie kradziez ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/3 "2019-07-11T17:51:28Z")
> [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](#): > > to na gry, wiec to nie kradziez > = “it’s for games, so it’s not stealing” You can obviously read English, so why didn’t you respond in English ? - because you’re talking nonsense, that’s why… ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/4 "2019-07-11T17:52:27Z")
czyttam po polsku i pisze tez po polsku ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/5 "2019-07-11T17:57:13Z")
Dobry powód ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/6 "2019-07-11T18:02:04Z")
powód jak kazdy, jedni okradają rodziców, żeby mieć na narkotyki, inni żeby sobie pograć w gry ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/7 "2019-07-11T18:05:24Z")
Zgoda. Dzieje się tak, gdy masz dzieci. ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/8 "2019-07-11T18:09:57Z")
Cieszę się, że doszliśmy do proorzumienia. Pozdrawiam. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/9 "2019-07-11T18:12:38Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/8/f8c7e34bd5e70c6629ffaaf2a2b8c9bfbe82790f.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Aetius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/julius_aetius/32/131544_2.png) [@Julius\_Aetius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Julius_Aetius)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/10 "2019-07-11T18:27:03Z")
coolstorybob ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/11 "2019-07-11T18:31:15Z")
Aaarghh ! What have I started !! 😝 ---
**Author:** ![Nasar\_Vyron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nasar_vyron/32/264128_2.png) [@Nasar\_Vyron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nasar_Vyron)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/12 "2019-07-11T18:36:46Z")
That’s a single form of pay-to-win in the form of a chance based (gambling) mechanic. You pay us, we give you a chance at actually getting a player that can increase your chances of winning IF you play right. Which is not the same as a guaranteed win as some seem to think p2w means when arguing in terms of EVE for some reason. CCP has gone the route of allowing people to purchase plex to sell for isk (not “p2w,” but effectively a game speed up which some do consider p2w) which can then be used to purchase injectors (this is p2w ,as this is an indirect purchase of power-ups and tier unlocks). The attempt to thinly veil the aspects that would be directly considered pay-to-win model is exactly that, thinly veiled such that only an idiot wouldn’t make the connection simply because there are other means to obtain isk. In other games premium currencies are also obtained through means other than cash (in an attempt to get you to purchase it) as well as traded for in-game currencies, CCP is not unique in this. The only counter to this would be to claim that PLEX is not a premium currency, to which I’d love to see how one explains away the in-game store where the only option is to purchase with plex, which must be obtained initially by someone with cash. Or that somehow the injecting of a skill that grants 5% bonus to X is somehow tied to player skill outside of having a finger to hit F1. Just like in other games with p2w models, paying doesn’t guarantee a win, it guarantees an advantage beyond the stage of the game you would typically find yourself without paying. Those arguing that because EVE takes skill, that it’s suddenly impossible to have an actual p2w model are making an ignorant argument. All it does is give CCP the green light to do more of the same by wrecking the game further by selling shortcuts rather than actually focusing on the problems that actually plague us and our ability to retain players past a few weeks into starting. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_O\_Helm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_o_helm/32/154936_2.png) [@Mark\_O\_Helm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_O_Helm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/13 "2019-07-11T18:43:23Z")
Da muss ich ihm leider recht geben. Wenn du Englisch verstehst, solltest du auch auf Englisch antworten. Sonst müsste er sich ja die Mühe machen, das was du schreibst mit Google Übersetzer zu übersetzen. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/14 "2019-07-11T18:55:50Z")
> [@Nasar\_Vyron](#): > > Just like in other games with p2w models, paying doesn’t guarantee a win, it guarantees an advantage beyond the stage of the game you would typically find yourself without paying. Those arguing that because EVE takes skill, that it’s suddenly impossible to have an actual p2w model are making an ignorant argument. All it does is give CCP the green light to do more of the same by wrecking the game further by selling shortcuts rather than actually focusing on the problems that actually plague us and our ability to retain players past a few weeks into starting. This is exactly the point that the die-hard EVE P2Winners refuse to admit… that you don’t need a ‘Gun of Never Fails to One-Shot’ in order to call it P2W. In most games, P2W most commonly means “You can purchase competitive advantage that is not available to you at this point in the game without paying”. EVE also has another form of P2W that is fairly unique to EVE - since most games allow you to increase your power/abilities/level by playing harder or smarter or ‘powerlevelling’, you have a built-in catch-up mechanic. If you want to get closer in power to the guys who have been in the game longer, you have to play harder/faster/smarter/longer than they do on a daily/weekly basis and you can slowly close the gap. EVE lacks this, since the ‘power/level up’ method has always been a time-gated skill point training queue. Thus, all other things being equal, someone who has paid to play longer than you will _always_ be ahead of you in ‘power points’ (SP in this case). Thus, EVE has _always_ been P2W because the people who have paid longer have always had the most training time. No, SP doesn’t guarantee you will win, any more than a ‘stronger character’ guarantees it. It is simply competitive advantage. Injectors, new accounts with more SP, Plex sales… all these things are simply variations on the P2W that EVE has _always_ had. CCP isn’t ‘making’ EVE p2w… it’s been that way from the start. I personally have no issue with this - the game needs to be funded, and who really cares if some person drops $500 on the game to get a leg up? My only concern with the P2W design of EVE is that it is actually hampering new player retention and game growth, and needs to be redesigned in order to promote more growth and interest in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/15 "2019-07-11T19:23:04Z")
A myslisz po jakiemu? Napisales kilka postow w watku, sam sobie w nich przeczysz i jeszcze jestes dumny z tego ze robisz z siebie idiote piszac w ojczystym jezyku na obcojezycznym forum, ewidentnie znajac angielski. Polactwo pelna geba. EvE is pay for advance, not P2W. ---
**Author:** ![Loria\_Jabaar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loria_jabaar/32/214888_2.png) [@Loria\_Jabaar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loria_Jabaar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/16 "2019-07-11T19:23:14Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > P2W most commonly means “You can purchase competitive advantage that is not available to you at this point in the game without paying”. P2W commonly means “You can purchase an advantage that is not available to you without paying at all”. ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/17 "2019-07-11T19:24:32Z")
Nie wiem o co Ci chodzi czlowieku, daj mi spokoj… ale mozesz tez wskazac palcem gdzie sobie przecze ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/18 "2019-07-11T19:46:28Z")
Ahh an EA product, EA being the Borg of gaming and incapable of innovation. EA have mastered the art of selling the same old shite to people on an annual basis, and then gouging those same people for content that should have been available through playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/19 "2019-07-11T19:47:25Z")
W pierwszym poscie piszesz ze to na gry wiec to nie kradziez, w trzecim ze niektorzy kradna na narkotyki inni na gry. Caly watek w ogole bez sensu bo dyskusja dotyczy czy EvE jest P2W a ty cos o kradziezy. No jeszcze odstawiasz Wajde 2 na oskarach “bede mowil po polsku bo mysle po polsku”. Do obcego domu tez jak do siebie wchodzisz? ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/20 "2019-07-11T19:52:06Z")
1. Pierwszy post byl sarkazmem. 2. A ja sobie pisalem o linku ktory wstawil OP. 3. Cale moje zycie w EVE pisze po polsku, i nie zamierzam tego zmieniac tylko dlatego, ze Tobie sie to nie podoba. 4. To jest moj dom. 5. Jeszcze jakies zastrzezenia? [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197.md?page=2)