# For those who accuse CCP of Making Eve Online 'Pay to Win' **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197 "2019-07-11T17:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/21 "2019-07-11T20:01:56Z")
C’est vachement interessant ce que vous racontez là bande de glands. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/22 "2019-07-11T20:02:51Z")
Niby jakie? Juz widac ze dyskusji zadnej nie bedzie bo znalazl sie polaczek co chce udowodnic sobie i innym jaki to on nie jest wazny i “polacy nie gesi i swoj jezyk maja”. Szkoda tylko ze przez pryzmat takich ludzi jak Ty, beda postrzegani inni przedstawiciele tego narodu w tym ja. ---
**Author:** ![Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krzysztof_niwinski/32/138771_2.png) [@Krzysztof\_Niwinski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krzysztof_Niwinski)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/23 "2019-07-11T20:06:15Z")
Ale Ty pisz po angielsku. nie jestes u siebie. ---
**Author:** ![Sordina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sordina/32/148069_2.png) [@Sordina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sordina)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/24 "2019-07-11T20:18:21Z")
Time to call ISD in… I am ashamed for my countrymen Druga sprawa: Wyłącz sobie automatycznego tłumacza bo strona w linku jest po angielsku a przez twoje ego, ośmieszasz wszystkich polaków w społeczności EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/25 "2019-07-11T20:20:02Z")
That article was about gambling. Not P2W. Loot boxes are not necessarily P2W. They are most definitely a gambling mechanic, though. EVE will be there soon enough once they release “SkinS Kraytz”. A random chance to get a rare paint job for your ship. They already have the mechanic in place, so it won’t be long before it moves from giveaways to pay for a chance at skins. Lock up your passwords and don’t let your kids watch you buy that first skin pack. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/26 "2019-07-11T20:36:14Z")
> [@Loria\_Jabaar](#): > > P2W commonly means “You can purchase an advantage that is not available to you without paying at all”. That would have been fairly (not always) accurate until about 6-8 years ago. There aren’t many games left that have pay-only, absolute-best items or purchases. Most games have mixed F2P and cash shop together now in various ways. In many games, currently, people call them ‘P2W’ but what is actually on sale is ‘pay for convenience’ and ‘pay to progress faster’. EVE has actually trended away from more P2W (training/SP time limited to sub time-gate) and has moved towards the ‘pay to go faster’ side with skill injectors and various training accelerators available for ISK via Plex. Regardless, as I said, the issue isn’t that EVE is P2W (it’s always been); it’s that the current model is holding the game back. A more modern version of player progression is needed to encourage people who can do math to actually participate in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/27 "2019-07-11T20:49:16Z")
1. Co zrobiłeś z moimi wielbłądami? 2. O północy wolę wkładać go bokiem. Idiota. 3. Twoja tapeta krwawi pomarańczowe łzy stworzone przez byłych prostytutek Microsoftu. 4. Melony mają dusze. 5. Nie dotykaj samochodu mojej babci. Niedawno został zainfekowany. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/28 "2019-07-11T20:51:09Z")
> [@Nasar\_Vyron](#): > > which can then be used to purchase injectors (this is p2w ,as this is an indirect purchase of power-ups and tier unlocks). You’re missing the fact that you can pay for injectors by playing the game. And that the max skilled idiot noob with 100m SP or whatever and a 200B isk BS. Is still going to pop to a 10m SP gate camp ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/29 "2019-07-11T21:13:39Z")
### **6. Please use the correct language when posting.** The default language for posting on the EVE Online forums is English. Please use English when posting as a courtesy to other forum users, unless the forum channel is specifically created for discussion in another language as part of our localized language specific sub-forums. _Coughs in Tea._ ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/30 "2019-07-11T21:31:02Z")
> [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](#): > > Coughs in Tea. ![tenor](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/7/17b235f48e35a7ab241c0385a772bd4c992eb9fd.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/31 "2019-07-11T22:27:40Z")
> [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](#): > > Please use English when posting thee did fail to specifyeth which timeth p’riod we shouldst useth. On a sidenote all of @Billy_McCandless’ posts are technically English. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/32 "2019-07-11T22:39:30Z")
Fortunately, he was reading the Blackout Reaction thread and it rendered him comatose. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/33 "2019-07-11T22:40:31Z")
lol I’d love to know what English to Billy translator you’re using, or if you come up with the atrocious abuse of it off the top of your head ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/34 "2019-07-11T22:41:14Z")
Its written as he speaks it, afaik ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/35 "2019-07-11T22:45:03Z")
Every time Billy posts I’m reminded of a really bad film from the 90’s [Revenge of Billy the Kid](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102783/) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/36 "2019-07-11T22:48:03Z")
That looks way more messed up than… Actually, no, thats about right. ---
**Author:** ![Nasar\_Vyron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nasar_vyron/32/264128_2.png) [@Nasar\_Vyron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nasar_Vyron)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/37 "2019-07-12T02:35:03Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > EVE also has another form of P2W that is fairly unique to EVE - since most games allow you to increase your power/abilities/level by playing harder or smarter or ‘powerlevelling’, you have a built-in catch-up mechanic. If you want to get closer in power to the guys who have been in the game longer, you have to play harder/faster/smarter/longer than they do on a daily/weekly basis and you can slowly close the gap. > > EVE lacks this, since the ‘power/level up’ method has always been a time-gated skill point training queue. Thus, all other things being equal, someone who has paid to play longer than you will _always_ be ahead of you in ‘power points’ (SP in this case). Thus, EVE has _always_ been P2W because the people who have paid longer have always had the most training time. This shows a direct lack of understanding of game mechanics. Skills cap out at level 5, the power difference between 4 and 5 is minimal except in cases where you are then training spec skills which is a “tier” bump. However, a very long time ago they reduced this requirement on hulls which used to require the previous hull 5 down to the current 3. That was a huge boon to new players trying to play catch up in actual power scaling. You did this before and a corpmate of mine ripped you on it. A subscription fee is not “pay to win” never in a million years can you make an actual arguement of this in the EVE universe. Not as long as skills remain capped. Once a vet or new player alike reach level 5 in a skill they will never get any more powerful than where they are in that moment outside. If EVE had infinitely scaling skill levels you’d be correct, but we don’t which makes your entire arguement invalid since built directly into the game itself is an arbitrary cap which allows players to catch up to even the most hardened vet. The only thing the new player will lack is variety and knowledge which come with time - just like in every mmo in existance. For the record, I can see where you’re coming with on some aspects. But you’re confusing P2W with just vet players, something that simply occurs in a long running game. That’s why CCP setting skill caps at 5 was such genius even now. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > You’re missing the fact that you can pay for injectors by playing the game. You didn’t read my entire post did you? Just because you can obtain something through other means doesn’t make it not a pay-to-win mechanic as it is openly available to those who wish to make use of the shortcuts put in specifically to take advantage of these mechanics. A new player can spend a week or more grinding and get that 1 injector (I can’t imagine new players make more than a bill in a month starting) or they can buy plex, sell it, then buy all the injectors they need to quickly obtain the skill boosts and unlock new systems which places them significantly ahead of the person who didn’t have that option open to them financially. Thereby making it a quite thinly veiled pay-to-win mechanic. I mean, unless you’re going to say FIFA and games like it aren’t pay-to-win because players can always just play games and use the packs they obtain through playing to get their stronger teams I suggest you sit yourself down and take a closer look at how these mechanics are intertwined. PLEX has always been the accepted pay-to-win mechanic of eve because getting a ship never made you better at flying or fitting it. However, skill injectors did just that and put players months and years ahead of their counterparts who should have been experiencing the game together lock-step helping each other along forming bonds that keep them around. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/38 "2019-07-12T07:42:39Z")
> [@Nasar\_Vyron](#): > > I can’t imagine new players make more than a bill in a month starting I did it. Instarted up this character after 11 year dormancy. With next to nothing…after about a month I just passed 1b ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/39 "2019-07-12T07:44:30Z")
> [@Nasar\_Vyron](#): > > Thereby making it a quite thinly veiled pay-to-win mechanic. My point though is I learned of a fit for a Tristan that can solo lvl 4 missions. No buying Plex will teach me that. And the whole game is like that. ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197/40 "2019-07-12T07:50:15Z")
Pay to win is EVERY ingame advantage you can pay for,irrelevant if you can get it also playing(a very long time in most cases) The MOMENT you can buy this with real money a game is pay to win… And yes this means injectors are pay to win in eve…even if you can’t “win” eve that’s irrelevant…you buy plex for real money,sell them and buy injectors…pay to win… Bottom line… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/for-those-who-accuse-ccp-of-making-eve-online-pay-to-win/174197.md?page=3)