# Force Auxiliary Balance Proposal **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** wormhole, pvp, ships\ **Created:** [July 18, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504 "2018-07-18T18:17:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/403 "2018-07-19T21:32:54Z")
Why not give FAX massive burst rep with a long cool down. Sustained rep is the problem not numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sepheir_sepheron/32/279597_2.png) [@Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sepheir_Sepheron)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/404 "2018-07-19T21:52:02Z")
I agree with the common idea of diminishing returns. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/405 "2018-07-19T22:07:52Z")
Or they could stop looking for slap-dash ‘fixes’ to a wide spectrum of interrelated problems and actually take a long hard look at what’s going on, and where/how everything’s _supposed_ to be fitting together. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/406 "2018-07-20T00:29:24Z")
How about introducing Remote Rep based on signature? Capital Repair modules are too strong when repping subcaps. Nerfing active tank. How about no? ---
**Author:** ![Infinite\_Destruction](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/infinite_destruction/32/141868_2.png) [@Infinite\_Destruction](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Infinite_Destruction)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/407 "2018-07-20T04:41:42Z")
In the big brawl yesterday in UALX-3, FAXs were obviously a concern so what happened ? Goons dropped a “dread bomb” (a full fleet of nothing but Dreadnoughts) right into the middle of the PL Cap fleet. Those dreads started popping FAXs like they were Skittles. Skill, tactics and ships used to counter the enemy’s skill, tactics and ships. As it should be. No nerf required. ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 5:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/408 "2018-07-20T05:35:37Z")
Ironically that illustrates the opposite. Hundreds of dreads were fielded and only 75 FAXes died, not a single supercarrier loss, and aside from a few titans that client crashed or bumped off their own fleet, every titan had be subjected to massed doomsday fire. So while many FAXes did indeed die, the effect was extremely low for what was actually sacrificed. IMP/Legacy lost over 800b in dreads and did little more than kill a portion of the FAXes with no major secondary effects. Had the home team not dropped dreads, the butcher’s bill would have been mostly held by the attackers. Of course none of this counts for disconnects and such, which is probably what killed more ships than anything else this round. ---
**Author:** ![Manor\_Codor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manor_codor/32/133742_2.png) [@Manor\_Codor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manor_Codor)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/409 "2018-07-20T06:05:25Z")
What reasoning have led you to those values? ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/410 "2018-07-20T06:27:54Z")
what do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Manor\_Codor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manor_codor/32/133742_2.png) [@Manor\_Codor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manor_Codor)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/411 "2018-07-20T06:34:59Z")
asking the OP, sorry ---
**Author:** ![Xelios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xelios/32/192236_2.png) [@Xelios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xelios)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/412 "2018-07-20T11:04:09Z")
You mean this one? > **[Apostle | Pflepsen | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/71138655/)** > > Pflepsen (Conquering Darkness) lost their Apostle in J125544 (E-R00027). Final Blow by ooooiiiii (Almost Dangerous) flying in a Loki. Total Value: 4,089,653,422.78 ISK Fit injectors next time and you could tank that gang for at least 40 minutes. Like the Ninazu that died in the same fight to 6 dreads and a carrier, but not before tanking _ **20 million** _ EHP: > **[Ninazu | Tren Kashur | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/71138868/)** > > Tren Kashur (Almost Dangerous) lost their Ninazu in J125544 (E-R00027). Final Blow by Chromie Gaterau (Conquering Darkness) flying in a Moros. Total Value: 3,295,035,851.80 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Capqu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/capqu/32/257465_2.png) [@Capqu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Capqu)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/413 "2018-07-20T12:38:14Z")
can you make them work while offline and in a bubble asking for a friend ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/414 "2018-07-20T14:52:28Z")
> [@Infinite\_Destruction](#): > > Goons dropped a “dread bomb” Actually, that was TEST. Credit where it’s due, they ate a _lot_ of DDs that would’ve been on titans otherwise. > [@Rowells](#): > > Ironically that illustrates the opposite. Hundreds of dreads were fielded and only 75 FAXes died, not a single supercarrier loss, and aside from a few titans that client crashed or bumped off their own fleet, every titan had be subjected to massed doomsday fire. The lack of more FAX deaths isn’t because FAX tank or reps are so amazing. It’s because in tidi, titan Doomsdays have a priority in the command queue, and those DDs were turned on the dreads. We were well below the 10% tidi limit, into ‘soul-crushing lag’ territory. Many of the 200+ dreads that died never got their guns to cycle. As for secondary effects… the secondary effects were exactly what I mentioned above: meatshield for the titans doing the real damage. That’s what the dreads were there for. ---
**Author:** ![letsplay\_Ohaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/letsplay_ohaya/32/155177_2.png) [@letsplay\_Ohaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/letsplay_Ohaya)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/415 "2018-07-20T14:55:09Z")
Why don’t we take the saftey net of insurance out of the game? Or make it for new accounts less then one year old! Could also make it so you can’t insure capitals. This would have a bigger change then changing what remote reps would do as if you just lower what the reps do all you do is bring more to make up thenn loss. This change in reps will only hurt the small groups and not larger groups just means every one will have two or three alts for a fax pilot! ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/416 "2018-07-20T14:56:30Z")
Cynically? Because without insurance, the big ships don’t get risked as much, and CCP wants the big titan battles for marketing. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/417 "2018-07-20T16:46:47Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Cynically? Because without insurance, the big ships don’t get risked as much, and CCP wants the big titan battles for marketing. That is also true, but maybe insurance could pay less to the point where people would still risk them but they would be loosing enough in relation to the power of cap’s. It would be interesting if force Aux worked differently, if they increased the self rep of targeted ship, then you don’t have to worry about capping out the force aux you only need to cap out the ship being repped. This change would then scales differently between different ship types instead of the massively overpowered rep to anything much smaller. ---
**Author:** ![Arehm\_Bukandara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arehm_bukandara/32/80796_2.png) [@Arehm\_Bukandara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arehm_Bukandara)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/418 "2018-07-20T16:47:32Z")
Would you agree the Loggerhead needs a buff? I see your point on the Dagon. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Safon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hal_safon/32/78208_2.png) [@Hal\_Safon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hal_Safon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/419 "2018-07-20T17:44:13Z")
IMO this change is kinda dumb. Should just buff dread dps. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/420 "2018-07-20T19:07:43Z")
Well, the Loggerhead’s big advantage is the drones: it gets the same effectiveness out of 2 that the others need a full flight to achieve. That means they effectively have 2.5x the drone amount. How effective that is… is questionable. I dunno. I’d have to look at more insane fits for loggerheads to really be able to tell. One notable thing, though, is that the loggerhead doesn’t get the cap transfer range bonus of the Mino. It feels more like it’s designed for small gang work, rather than being the big expensive shiny on the field when the DDs start targeting. ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_Harms](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isaiah_harms/32/140006_2.png) [@Isaiah\_Harms](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Isaiah_Harms)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/421 "2018-07-21T00:06:23Z")
> Blockquote This kind of thing should not happen: [Minokawa | Holmsey | Killmail | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/kill/69962756/) 202 - reps 6 mill actual damage against a 150+ man subcap fleet for close to twenty minutes until dreads could be brought in range. That’s OP, and forces escalations when they shouldn’t be necessary. Oddly Brisc… I’m wondering exactly why those Dreadnoughts were needed. They didn’t kill the Mino, nor did they kill the battleship. So? Why exactly were dreadnoughts brought on grid? What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_Harms](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isaiah_harms/32/140006_2.png) [@Isaiah\_Harms](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Isaiah_Harms)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504/422 "2018-07-21T00:08:34Z")
CCP Rise. I oppose your nerf. Triage wasn’t a game breaker when it was stronger with the Archon. Tell your idiots on the CSM they need to man up and place some DAMAGE modules on their ships. If your DPS ships GOT NO DPS then you GET WHAT YOU DESERVE: A very protracted fight. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/force-auxiliary-balance-proposal/90504.md?page=22)