# Forsaken Fortress – Coming 26 May **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Created:** [April 24, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219 "2020-04-24T16:15:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/390 "2020-04-25T08:59:18Z")
> [@Onictus](#): > > Actually THIS player wants damage caps removed so I don’t have to waste so much time shooting useless, undefended, bullsh!t structures. i.e. citadel spam…that is literally everywhere. If you’re in a large group it can look like a structure is undefended - maybe a smaller group couldn’t conceivably win, so 1-5 players did not show up to make a useless defense effort. Thousands of 1-5 player me-and-my-alts corps out there are climbing the mountain because it’s there, then leaving the mountain anchored after a few days of messing with the fit (and in highsec clogging the overview unless blocked on one of your tabs.) So in some cases the structure was, in fact, wanted by those players. The larger group’s only hope of _action_ is if the 1-5 players have a batphone and/or a 3rd party shows some interest. I’ll now go back to CCP having to design a system that supports subcaps and capitals having a use, and damage caps being one tool that seems to help do that. No system can make everyone happy… and… if everyone was completely happy, it probably wouldn’t be EVE 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/391 "2020-04-25T09:01:29Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > maybe a smaller group couldn’t conceivably win, so 1-5 players did not show up to make a useless defense effort. This is where I want to see structures get command boosts and logistics fittings, even if they have to be structure unique ones to balance with the tiny number of slots most structures get on them. That allows small groups more of a chance to punch upwards a bit, without really impacting the 250 man fleets because by then 1 more logistics ship or command boost isn’t a serious thing. And without impacting solo structures at all. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/392 "2020-04-25T09:03:16Z")
If you own a multi-billion ISK structure and you can’t even plan a week ahead on keeping it fueled up, then you deserve to lose said structure… ---
**Author:** ![Lou\_Lingg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lou_lingg/32/394606_2.png) [@Lou\_Lingg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lou_Lingg)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/393 "2020-04-25T09:04:31Z")
💃 💃buy urself a friend 🎶 🎶 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJG8t356kU8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJG8t356kU8) ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/394 "2020-04-25T09:15:54Z")
> [@Rock\_Archiriu](#): > > All Good, on a sidenote though, when does this happen to PoS’s ? > > There must be data suffice to show, that any tower (or structure) has not been fueled and in use for - let’s say - 6 months, and therefore are Un-anchoring for free pickup to any passer bys? THAT would leave alot to pick up for free, and keep assets in game? > > Just my 2 cents. o7 I disagree, the beauty of a Pos is that it can be put online then offline as and when needed. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/395 "2020-04-25T09:25:03Z")
merit in the thought, but the balance there is going to be awkward af; there probably is a way, math solves everything apparently. how would it effect a small or medium sized group attack another larger groups for example? where would that balance out? or would the bigger groups citadel also be ‘punching up’ and fielding N+5000? ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/396 "2020-04-25T09:30:30Z")
> [@Aernir\_Ridley](#): > > I referenced earlier how incredibly easy it is to keep upwell structures high power. There’s no limit on the amount of fuel you can put in there, and the cost is minuscule compared to what POSes used to cost. That 7 day timer doesn’t start until the structure is out of fuel, giving people plenty of time to plan ahead. I don’t know why you keep saying that, putting a Pos online costs virtually nothing compared to a Citadel. It just needs fuel in it and a tiny bit of time to come back online. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/397 "2020-04-25T09:35:55Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > merit in the thought, but the balance there is going to be awkward af; there probably is a way, math solves everything apparently. > how would it effect a small or medium sized group attack another larger groups for example? where would that balance out? or would the bigger groups citadel also be ‘punching up’ and fielding N+5000? Lets say for sake of argument that an Ast would be the equivalent of… 1 Basi/Guardian. Who knows what the right level to set it is. This is on top of it’s current capabilities obviously. So…, I’m a 5 man fleet. I probably don’t have any logi at all since 1 logi costs me 20% of my fleets DPS. This means I don’t have to try active tanking my T1 cruisers/BC’s to fight a defence of my structure vs that Leshak/Nestor fleet of 8-10, and instead I can buffer tank it and use the structure logi to keep my ships in the fight, at least for a while anyway. Next, I’m a 20 man fleet, I probably have 4 Logi anyway at this scale, so my Citadel adds only 25% to my logi capabilities. Still worthwhile right, but nowhere near as big an impact as it has on the 5 man fleet, and I can’t just ignore logi ships and expect the citadel to keep up with your 30 man fleets DPS. Next, I’m a 200 man fleet, I now have 40 logi. My citadel now adds 2.5% to my logi capabilities. Sure it’s on a hull that can’t die, but if you kill my other 40 logi, the citadel isn’t even remotely close to keeping up on it’s own with incoming DPS, so it’s a fairly insignificant addition. So, adding logi to structures doesn’t scale very well, since you can’t just bring more structures, so those larger groups aren’t really going to care. Ok, Command boosts might be more of a thing, but the larger groups are probably already bringing a bunch of them as it stands, so again the structure just adds a little redundancy as they don’t even stack. I mean yes, any buff to structures will impact a small group hitting a large group, but what small group is ever going to realistically threaten a large groups primary structures. ---
**Author:** ![Onictus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onictus/32/277200_2.png) [@Onictus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onictus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/398 "2020-04-25T09:43:19Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > If you’re in a large group it can look like a structure is undefended - maybe a smaller group couldn’t conceivably win, so 1-5 players did not show up to make a useless defense effort. No one that can only put up a 1-5 man defense is in SOV null, and in order to get on our radar in low sec, you have to have a name like Snuff. 1-5 man corps aren’t attempting the mountain, and your odd idea of E-bushido doesn’t really matter. ---
**Author:** ![Aralis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aralis/32/191438_2.png) [@Aralis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aralis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/399 "2020-04-25T09:44:05Z")
Classic CCP slash and burn. Doesn’t it ever occur to you to wonder why your game is going down the tubes? ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/400 "2020-04-25T09:45:27Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Arrendis](#): > > > > Except to get those benefits, they already need to stay fueled. > > But not all the time. As an example, someone else already pointed out a lot of smaller corporations will online their stations maybe once a month to run refining for their months haul of ore and that’s it. I wonder…what would be the price difference from onlining a Citadel and all it’s modules to refine/compress compared to the additional tax in an NPC station? I really can’t see it being worth it particularly in HS/LS for a one man or small corp. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/401 "2020-04-25T09:46:50Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > I wonder…what would be the price difference from onlining a Citadel and all it’s modules to refine/compress compared to the additional tax in an NPC station? > > I really can’t see it being worth it particularly in HS/LS for a one man or small corp. Since refining takes no time… 720 blocks. So the price difference of 720 blocks has to be less than 4% the value of your ore. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/402 "2020-04-25T09:55:24Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > small group is ever going to realistically threaten a large groups primary structures. Small high sp well oiled groups should be a threat to large groups though, well certainly bad ones xD Im not sure logi or command bursts would be the thing to utalise, though some form of offline (when no one is online to pilot the cit) might be of use? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/403 "2020-04-25T09:58:10Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > Small high sp well oiled groups should be a threat to large groups though, well certainly bad ones xD Point at a bad large group (on the scale of EVE, so not 50 people) who aren’t well organised at at least their core. Sure PIRAT for example could snipe off a few structures of some Null alliance that aren’t crucial, because they leave the defence to some newbies, but they aren’t going to ever threaten the core structures. The disorganised groups now just don’t bother with structures. Offline defence to deal with the solo harasser in an Oracle also isn’t a bad thing, but Structures need something that anchors a defence and allows fighting against numbers, because attackers almost always have the initiative & the choice. And that something in the context of EVE is Logi & Command Bursts. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/404 "2020-04-25T10:18:05Z")
conoco lorde maybe? there are a few groups out there with large numbers but poor fc’s. I couldnt name many of them, theyre not usually a good target for me. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hatton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ben_hatton/32/249610_2.png) [@Ben\_Hatton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ben_Hatton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/405 "2020-04-25T10:19:43Z")
What I had written Earlier > [@Ben\_Hatton](#): > > I personally very much agree with these changes. However, I really do think it needs two tweaks. > 1 - Residents of a station must be notified somehow, an in game notification mail would suffice > 2 - 7 Days is too short, I think 30 is much more reasonable, especially if we are using the term abandoned. 7 days is more like a logistical error of not supplying fuel rather than abandoning your structure. > > Additionally, given that asset safety was a fundamental feature of structures on release, it is absolutely critical an email from CCP should be sent to all existing and post 2015 players letting them know of this change. Not all players on a break will be monitoring the official CCP channels, and it would give them a chance to log in as an alpha and move their most valuable things. As an industrialist (as much as people should be smarter and move their stuff before) I would be devastated and not likely return at all if say my BPO library ceased to exist. To further add to this, I think this is pretty on point too > [@Piar\_Stolpien](#): > > When it comes to the asset safety change, I really hope the 7 day-timer could be reconsidered. And I don’t say that to defend lazy players who can’t be arsed to keep their structures fueled. I say it because of the players who don’t have a structure. > > I see several replies here arguing that one-man corps shouldn’t have a “right” to run structures if they can’t keep it fueled and defended. I guess that’s a fair point. But this change will hurt players who are using public structures as well, maybe more so. > > As a structure owner (or as someone who wants to shoot said structure), the amount of time before a structure goes abandoned is less important. As many have pointed out, the owner can put many months of fuel in the structure. I still think 7 days is a bit harsh for them. Because sometimes, life happens. You get in an accident. You had to work an extra shift and didn’t have time to refuel before going on vacation. A global pandemic breaks out and prevents you from logging in. > > But now, consider the players who can’t or don’t want to maintain their own structure. They have no way to know if a structure they want to use will run out of fuel tomorrow. That means logging in once a week or risk loosing asset safety. Sure, that’s probably not a problem for many, but for a more casual player, a week is nothing. I’m sometimes away for a couple weeks at a time because of work, or I might have two week-long trips back to back, with just a day to repack my bags in between. So as part of the notifications that you should receive, being able to view or be notified of low fuel is also very important for residents of a structure. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/406 "2020-04-25T10:42:26Z")
There is a lot wrong with what you posted, but i really cba. ---
**Author:** ![mmaxam\_Aideron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mmaxam_aideron/32/274323_2.png) [@mmaxam\_Aideron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/mmaxam_Aideron)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/407 "2020-04-25T11:13:35Z")
А почему нельзя сделать так чтоб,нашёл забрлшеную цитадель,сам заправил и она стала твоей,пока заправляешь? ---
**Author:** ![Kenneth\_Feld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenneth_feld/32/435300_2.png) [@Kenneth\_Feld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenneth_Feld)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/408 "2020-04-25T11:19:17Z")
You do realize the once a week on/off uses 3 days of fuel to turn it on - so if you do it every 6 days (To make sure you don’t go over 7 - then you waste half the fuel to keep your citadel low power. To put it a different way - it is only roughly twice as much fuel to run it 24/7 as it is to turn it on/off once a week ---
**Author:** ![Trent\_Mazer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trent_mazer/32/200426_2.png) [@Trent\_Mazer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trent_Mazer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219/409 "2020-04-25T11:44:25Z")
If a support ticket doesn’t help, get in touch. Might be able to help. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219.md?page=19) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forsaken-fortress-coming-26-may/235219.md?page=21)