# Foundation – New Quadrant starts soon! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** official\ **Created:** [May 3, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027 "2021-05-03T15:00:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/165 "2021-05-12T15:43:01Z")
The very definition of interaction is a matter of perspective. Inclusion or exclusion of other factors to retention is a matter of perspective, hence relative weight of interaction is a matter of perspective. Accounting of factors facilitating/hindering interaction, choice of approaches to encourage interaction and consideration of their possible implications are all matter of perspective. Choice of data processing methods is a matter of perspective, again; as a result, different pictures can be derived from same data… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/166 "2021-05-12T15:50:37Z")
> [@Khlaa\_Sor](#): > > The very definition of interaction is a matter of perspective. No, it’s not. It’s pretty simple: did you do something they could see/react to/be impacted by without going through an intermediary step that obscures one player from another? That’s not a matter of perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/167 "2021-05-12T16:06:28Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > did you do something they could see/react to/be impacted by without going through an intermediary step that obscures one player from another? That’s not a matter of perspective. This is one possible definition of interaction (albeit somewhat obscure), and the choice of this very definition definitely **is** a matter of perspective, as is its interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/168 "2021-05-12T16:12:01Z")
First off: How the hell is that ‘obscure’? But more importantly: that’s the consistent definition CCP’s used in their FanFest presentations. That makes it the single definition of interaction for the context of this discussion, because the discussion is _about_ interaction _as defined by CCP for their FanFest presentations_, and its _measurable_ effect on retention. And those measurements show that when people aren’t interacting with other people, they’re more likely to leave the game. CCP’s FF presentations show that. The login numbers during the Blackout show that. The numbers during every major war show it. Thinning the population out _actively hurts_ player retention, and the numbers demonstrate that again and again. I’m sorry that you don’t like being wrong… but you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/169 "2021-05-12T16:28:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > First off: How the hell is that ‘obscure’? > [@Arrendis](#): > > intermediary step that obscures one player from another this needs its own definition (likely a matter of perspective, again) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/170 "2021-05-12T16:31:53Z")
I think it’s more likely that you mean it needs _examples_. An example would be contracts, or the market, where obviously your actions have an impact on someone else—they’re buying your goods or selling you something—but you never _directly_ interact, and you probably don’t even pay attention to the name on the transaction item in your wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/171 "2021-05-12T16:56:30Z")
No again this is not what I mean. Example is not exhaustive however valid and interesting. We need formal definition to identify where exactly sits the boundary which would disqualify interaction - like in the example you’ve kindly provided - from being counted as such (and how exactly they are quantified, by the way). Otherwise what we get is an arbitrary perspective-driven estimation rather than a solid quantitative parameter used to obtain the _measurement_ of the effect on retention. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/172 "2021-05-12T17:30:18Z")
The word you don’t seem to be parsing here is ‘directly’. Is there direct interaction? Then it counts. Is the interaction indirect? Then it doesn’t. And all of your attempts to obfuscate and make things seem less than very, very straightforward just demonstrate how little you’re interested in an actual, good-faith discussion. But then, you’ve already tried to end any discussion at least three times, so I suppose I should let you just scurry off. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/173 "2021-05-15T13:14:13Z")
> [@Khlaa\_Sor](#): > > interaction It would seem that ‘interaction’, that retains players, is interaction with meaning. That meaning being a shared goal or vision with others. It could be as simple as “best alpha carebear corp ever!” to null sec empire building. More often than not, that meaning requires some ownership, a stake in the outcome, to participate in the results. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/174 "2021-05-15T13:43:33Z")
> [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > It would seem that ‘interaction’, that retains players, is interaction with meaning. That meaning being a shared goal or vision with others. In fact, according to CCP’s numbers, that meaning _does not_ need to be a shared goal. One of the things they were surprised to see strong correlation on was that people who get _ganked_ in their first 30 days show higher retention, often out of ‘I’m going to get those bastards’. Interaction, even acrimonious, seems to be the key component, not just cooperation. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/175 "2021-05-15T13:44:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > … people who get _ganked_ in their first 30 days show higher retention, often out of ‘I’m going to get those bastards’. I was podded my third day in Eve, in low sec. I’ve yet to find that SOB, but I will one day. ---
**Author:** ![Lauralite\_Anne\_Brezia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lauralite_anne_brezia/32/380065_2.png) [@Lauralite\_Anne\_Brezia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lauralite_Anne_Brezia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/176 "2021-05-15T17:45:55Z")
> [@Culsotu2](#): > > Why is there Caldari/Minm/Amarr stations in Gallente space? > Why can you as a Gallente pilot, fly into Caldari space? > Why does Caldari ships have Gallente guns/drones bonus? 1. Because the empires maintain more or less open trade relations, and were for an extended period at relative peace before that. 2. You are a capsuleer, you are an extranational and extralegal entity with extraterritorial rights to move as you see fit so long as you don’t piss off a particular empire too much. 3. Weapons Systems are not universally belonging to a singular faction, each empire has developed its own versions of each weapon system at one time or another, but each chose to specialize in particular things. In regard to Gallente/Caldari, they had a shared root tech base, having initially risen from the same home system just different planets, and so some of that root specialization carried over to the Caldari later. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/177 "2021-05-16T00:01:40Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > One of the things they were surprised to see strong correlation on was that people who get _ganked_ in their first 30 days show higher retention, That was not a strong correlation, it was a weak one and it wasn’t Ganks, it was all PvP. They never looked deeper into the data to determine if it was actually any kind of causation or caused by natural skewing of the data (such as people who are likely to stay put more hours in during their first 30 days so are more likely to encounter PvP activities). Now, this is not saying PvP/Ganking is bad to be clear, but lets be clear on what CCP did and didn’t find. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/178 "2021-05-16T02:10:19Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > > > It would seem that ‘interaction’, that retains players, is interaction with meaning. That meaning being a shared goal or vision with others. > > In fact, according to CCP’s numbers, that meaning _does not_ need to be a shared goal. One of the things they were surprised to see strong correlation on was that people who get _ganked_ in their first 30 days show higher retention, often out of ‘I’m going to get those bastards’. > > Interaction, even acrimonious, seems to be the key component, not just cooperation. Seriously wish you people would stop posting that 2015 oldass BS from CCP Rise. Also his statement was based on new players with 2 weeks or less time in the game. Anyway, the latest reports from CCP Hellmar during the Eve World Tour of 2019 showed that 90% of new players quit within their first 7 days of playing, most probably due to what he called ‘The Magic Moment’ of when players suffer their first devastating ship loss. Players who don’t have support from an established Eve Online social group were more inclined to quit. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/179 "2021-05-16T03:14:09Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > … probably due to … Is this data public? ---
**Author:** ![Ashterothi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashterothi/32/459299_2.png) [@Ashterothi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashterothi)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/180 "2021-05-16T06:38:09Z")
The ‘Magic Moment’ is exactly the same thing he was talking about, and the point wasn’t that there has to be a social group for them to fall back on, but rather that those who did not have this kind of moment had a much higher chance of dropping out early. From this CCP started having GMs target players just after a loss, as well as introduce threats like the Triglavians that end up causing this event in a much more controlled way that helps the player hopefully use this as a spur to take the game seriously, rather than flunk out at the first sign of adversary. No one gets ganked until they do something they probably shouldn’t have done, knowingly or not, and so having that moment stands out in an otherwise potentially boring and directionless early game. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/181 "2021-05-16T11:59:22Z")
> [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > … probably due to … > > Is this data public? Watch the video linked below: [EVE Down Under 2019 - Beyond The Friendship Machine](https://youtu.be/Vw67gb6eoYk) * * * > [@Ashterothi](#): > > The ‘Magic Moment’ is exactly the same thing he was talking about No he wasn’t. > [@Ashterothi](#): > > and the point wasn’t that there has to be a social group for them to fall back on Yes it is. > [@Ashterothi](#): > > but rather that those who did not have this kind of moment had a much higher chance of dropping out early Wrong, that’s exactly opposite of what CCP Hellmar stated in the 2019 presentation - Beyond The Friendship Machine. > [@Ashterothi](#): > > No one gets ganked until they do something they probably shouldn’t have done, knowingly or not What a load of crap. Seriously, don’t care to hear anymore of your BS about how ganking new players keeps them in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/182 "2021-05-25T04:26:49Z")
Thought this was supposed to be soon? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/foundation-new-quadrant-starts-soon/309027/183 "2021-08-23T04:27:18Z")
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