# Freighters are too cost effective to suicide gank. Need HP increase **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 4, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169 "2020-02-04T15:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/1 "2020-02-04T15:19:42Z")
There’s a couple of corporations who have been suicide ganking freighters since the end of last year. In one month one of these corporations, a bunch of no namers with a bad zkill have increased their zkill isk efficiency from utter garbage to 97% in just over a month of suicide ganking freighters. They typically gank 1 to 4 freighters per day. This just highlights how ridiculously easy it is to do. Freighters have too little HP and that is what is making this such a cost efficient activity for them. From a low of 6 to more commonly 8-9 Talos will kill a freighter in hi-sec before concord destroys them, depending on the fit and sec status. That means even if they target an empty freighter, the pilot they target will lose more than the gankers lost in the attack. Once you factor in the cargo, the attacker is all but certain to make a good profit by continually doing this, essentially risk free. The only real risk is the risk of failiure but it’s really difficult to fail if you know what you’re doing. I believe freighters need a significant HP boost. It shouldn’t be so easy just to drop a small number of talos on any freighter you want in concord protected space and be guaranteed to cost the pilot more than you lose, with the added bonus of likely receiving loot that will often not only cover your costs, but grant you significant profit. Double the HP of freighters. It won’t stop freighter ganks, it’s not supposed to. It’s just to add some balance to the equation. These groups will need to be more selective in their targets because they will have to invest twice as much in the gank. ---
**Author:** ![Cartheron\_Crust](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cartheron_crust/32/372053_2.png) [@Cartheron\_Crust](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cartheron_Crust)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/2 "2020-02-04T15:24:59Z")
What is the point of bringing zkill into this? ---
**Author:** ![Magalaus\_Shardani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/magalaus_shardani/32/399592_2.png) [@Magalaus\_Shardani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Magalaus_Shardani)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/3 "2020-02-04T15:47:20Z")
Freighters are already impossible to gank if they arent autopiloting. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/4 "2020-02-04T15:48:21Z")
Solo pilots are fodder. You expect to fly and endgame ship solo against a team and win? 1 v many = you lose, as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/5 "2020-02-04T15:53:18Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > You expect to fly and endgame ship solo against a team and win? He is not fighting them. Plus your argument is stupid, You are not “supposed to” lose your ship when you undock solo. @OP test the new nirvana implants. They give +56.3% shield amount, while the SM-7 series also provide a multiplicative bonus. You can also fit bulkhead on your freighters. Sure cargohold enhancers look good but they make your ship easier to gank. An obelisk with good implants can reach 510k ehp. A talos for 110M gets 1500 DPS. That means to kill the freighter, you need 15 talos on a 24s concord intervention, that is 1b3 isks (assuming they get back half the modules) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/6 "2020-02-04T16:11:44Z")
Tldr This a ganking whine thread that ticks all the boxes…and i mean ALL the boxes. Citing Killboard efficiency. ✅ > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > In one month one of these corporations, a bunch of no namers with a bad zkill have increased their zkill isk efficiency from utter garbage to 97% Ganking is easy ✅ > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > This just highlights how ridiculously easy it is to do. Buff tanks ✅ > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > Freighters have too little HP and that is what is making this such a cost efficient activity for them. Ganking is risk free ✅ > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > Once you factor in the cargo, the attacker is all but certain to make a good profit by continually doing this, essentially risk free. Just one more nerf ✅ > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > It’s just to add some balance to the equation. ‘cost effective’ is a bad measurement for ganking. Cost =/= tank. Leopard anyone? There are also some ships out there that specialise in being dps heavy. And yeah they aren’t that expensive but that’s not a bad thing. Quite the opposite, it’s awesome that poor players can use cheap ships to blap above their weight. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/7 "2020-02-04T16:13:28Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Quite the opposite, it’s awesome that noobs can use cheap ships to blap above their weight. think of the children ✅ ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/8 "2020-02-04T16:14:43Z")
Lol ok then ill change it. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/9 "2020-02-04T16:17:15Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > He is not fighting them. Then he is really going to lose. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > @OP test the new nirvana implants. They give +56.3% shield amount, while the SM-7 series also provide a multiplicative bonus. > You can also fit bulkhead on your freighters. Sure cargohold enhancers look good but they make your ship easier to gank. > > An obelisk with good implants can reach 510k ehp. > A talos for 110M gets 1500 DPS. That means to kill the freighter, you need 15 talos on a 24s concord intervention, that is 1b3 isks (assuming they get back half the modules) This is the worst care bear advice. No amount of shield is going to change anything. They will scan him before hand and just bring extra ships. Don’t give new players advice when you don’t know what the ■■■■ you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/10 "2020-02-04T16:18:40Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Then he is really going to lose. You can’t lose a fight that does not exist. > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > This is the worst care bear advice. No amount of shield is going to change anything. They will scan him before hand and just bring extra ships. And that still exactly answer his question. Funny that you like to be completely off-topic : > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > Double the HP of freighters. > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Don’t give new players advice when you don’t know what the ■■■■ you are doing. Don’t give advices when you don’t understand the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/11 "2020-02-04T16:20:52Z")
Freighters don’t get ganked because of a lack of EHP, they get ganked because of a lack of intelligent pilots. Pilots who keep failing to fit them properly, who keep failing to limit their cargo value to reasonable numbers and pilots who keep failing to engage their brains when flying them. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/12 "2020-02-04T16:21:45Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > It shouldn’t be so easy just to drop a small number of talos on any freighter you want in concord protected space It’s easy only on solo autopiloting freighters. With friends or scouts and webbers, that’s not the same story. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/13 "2020-02-04T16:27:11Z")
> [@Magalaus\_Shardani](#): > > Freighters are already impossible to gank if they arent autopiloting. You’re wrong and you don’t know what you even talking about. They are easy to gank even if they are not autopiloting. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/14 "2020-02-04T16:28:42Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > > > You expect to fly and endgame ship solo against a team and win? > > He is not fighting them. > Plus your argument is stupid, You are not “supposed to” lose your ship when you undock solo. > > @OP test the new nirvana implants. They give +56.3% shield amount, while the SM-7 series also provide a multiplicative bonus. > You can also fit bulkhead on your freighters. Sure cargohold enhancers look good but they make your ship easier to gank. > > An obelisk with good implants can reach 510k ehp. > A talos for 110M gets 1500 DPS. That means to kill the freighter, you need 15 talos on a 24s concord intervention, that is 1b3 isks (assuming they get back half the modules) Which implants for the 510k ehp? Am not aware of hull pirate set? ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/15 "2020-02-04T16:30:00Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Freighters don’t get ganked because of a lack of EHP, they get ganked because of a lack of intelligent pilots. You won’t mind if they double freighter HP then. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/16 "2020-02-04T16:31:41Z")
If ganking looks easy, it’s because 1) some players have gotten really good at it, and 2) they often carefully select their targets to ensure that they can be ganked by the fleet on hand (which creates a selection bias to casual observers). Whether players make it look easy or not, it still requires a lot of skill to successfully execute any gank, let a lone one that requires the coordination of many players and alts. The truth of the matter is not that ganking is too easy (in fact, many would argue that it’s been over-nerfed), it’s that you are making yourself a soft target. You can minimize your chances of being ganked through a proper fit, implants, intel tools, and not overloading your freighter with too much value. There are numerous resources out there to help you learn. You can also try ganking yourself. If nothing else, it will teach you how to properly harden yourself against ganks (and probably demonstrate to you that freighters don’t need any more buffs, nor does ganking need any more nerfs). ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/17 "2020-02-04T16:39:07Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Lol ok then ill change it. No need, I found it funny to use your own presentation, does not invalidate your point. > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > Which implants for the 510k ehp? Am not aware of hull pirate set? The new nirvana set. > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > You won’t mind if they double freighter HP then. There is a little misunderstanding here. Ships EHP typically depend on the amount of minerals used . The hull is the direct sum of the pieryte and trit, IIRC. The shield and armor depend on the other minerals, the faction. That means that increasing the EHP means, that the cost of the ships should also increase. But then, the weight, the align time should increase, and the travel speed should decrease, too. All in all, even with double, triple , quintuple EHP, those freighters would have still died. > **[Obelisk | thunderc0w | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/81245523/)** > > thunderc0w (Win Corp) lost their Obelisk in Uedama (The Citadel). Final Blow by Joel Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 23,513,122,003.45 ISK > **[Obelisk | Matts | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/81244645/)** > > Matts (Science and Trade Institute) lost their Obelisk in Poinen (The Forge). Final Blow by Carmeth Andari (Mostly Sober) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 17,934,884,326.44 ISK As people already told you, there are better ways to prevent the losses : use webber alts, don’t auto pilot, scout the route. FYI I have 4 freighters (3 alts with a freighter, and one spare in case I lose one) and never lost a freighter yet, even in the “100% loot” event. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/18 "2020-02-04T16:43:01Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You can’t lose a fight that does not exist. The fight exists, not fighting back doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/19 "2020-02-04T16:45:39Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > The fight exists, not fighting back doesn’t change that. Yes it completely changes that. Not being able to fight back, invalidates the term of “fight”. Shooting someone who can’t react, is not a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/20 "2020-02-04T16:48:13Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > > The fight exists, not fighting back doesn’t change that. > > Yes it completely changes that. Not being able to fight back, invalidates the term of “fight”. > Shooting someone who can’t react, is not a fight. OP CHOOSES not to fight back. CHOOSES to die like a sheep. CHOOSES to travel alone in an endgame ship OP CHOOSES TO BE DEFEATED [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169.md?page=2)