# Freighters are too cost effective to suicide gank. Need HP increase **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 4, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169 "2020-02-04T15:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/226 "2020-02-05T15:27:34Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > Don’t give new players advice when you don’t know what the ■■■■ you are doing. > > Don’t talk big about PvP when all you ever do is PI in a carebear corp. Not just clueless on the topic, clueless in general I see. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/227 "2020-02-05T15:28:43Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > So while we all wait for CCP to implement the HP buff to freighters See what I mean, living in a total drug induced bubble. _If we pretend it is so, it might happen_🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/228 "2020-02-05T15:30:46Z")
> [@ExcalibursTemplar](#): > > > > Oh well why didn’t you mention those evil multiboxers right away?? That changes everything 🤣 > > > > You don’t want to get me started on multi boxers. Not when you’ve got guys in this game soloing HQ incursion with 40/60 accounts making 3+ bill every 10/15 minutes. > > > > CCP are batshit mental for allowing people to do that. > > 60 x $15 = lots of reasons for CCP to do nothing at all about this issue. You mean besides that multiboxing is not even an issue, is not against the rules? ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/229 "2020-02-05T15:36:38Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > > > Make the gankers pay more to do this, so they are the biggest losers from such fails, as they should be - not their victim. > > They are already the biggest losers, a point you keep ignoring. The gankers lose ~1 billion worth of gank ships, the freighter pilot loses a fully insured freighter and gets most of their ISK back. > > > Freighter pilots take all the risk. Gankers take none. It’s time to adjust the balance of the risk equation for gankers in the right direction. Make them pay more to gank freighters. > > Changing the cost to gank a freighter does not change the risk in any meaningful way. The process of ganking remains exactly the same, you just limit the target pool to freighters with a higher cargo value. That is an increase in safety for freighter pilots, not an increase in risk for gankers. > > > You follow all of these and still be ganked. It happens. These things you state only reduce your risk, not eliminate it. > > Yep, welcome to EVE. Nothing is 100% safe. The fact that you are objecting to this demonstrates that you’re just another example of highsec trash demanding “just one more PvP nerf” until PvP is removed entirely. Base freighter cost: 1.1 billion Platinum insurance: 259m Payout value: 866m That means once you factor in insurance costs of 259m, the pilot in actual fact only receives 600m back for his loss. If he insured an additional time previously without loss, that’s another 259m deducted from that 600m, and so on. Freighters cost about 1.1 bill. So from an empty, fully insured freighter, the pilot still loses at least 500m when he is ganked. The loss goes up again if he had any cargo. On ganker risk, many gankers target freighters carrying plastic wraps. They sacrifice Talos in the hope that it’s carrying something nice. If it’s not, they lose their Talos for nothing. Buffing freighter HP means they have to take a greater risk to do this, with a larger investment of Talos. So yes, it does increase their risk. It increases their risk of freighter ganks performed being unprofitable and by how much a gank will turn out unprofitable. It increases ganker losses when things don’t go their way. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/230 "2020-02-05T15:42:31Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > So from an empty, fully insured freighter, the pilot still loses at least 500m when he is ganked. So you admit that the freighter pilot already loses less than the gankers and no buff is needed. > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > On ganker risk, many gankers target freighters carrying plastic wraps. They sacrifice Talos in the hope that it’s carrying something nice. If it’s not, they lose their Talos for nothing. > > Buffing freighter HP means they have to take an even greater risk to do this, with a larger investment of Talos. So yes, it does increase their risk. It increases their risk of freighter ganks performed being unprofitable. It increases ganker losses when things don’t go their way. Ok, so now you’re moving the goalposts again. First it’s “people are ganking empty freighters for lols too often”, now it’s “gambling on an unknown cargo that could possibly be valuable is too cheap”. You’re clearly just throwing out any possible argument that can get your PvP risk reduced. PS: don’t want to have someone gamble on your cargo? Don’t wrap it, make it clear to everyone that the value is too low to make you a profitable target. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/231 "2020-02-05T15:43:21Z")
Still on this clueless whine? It’s a PvP game, learn to lose with class, not whine on the forums. Reminds me of a child having a meltdown in a store. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/232 "2020-02-05T17:10:36Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > _If we pretend it is so, it might happen_ 🤣 Do you seriously think CCP will listen to this whine thread? Op can cry all she wants, it’s an objective truth that freighters are pretty well balanced and it takes quite an investment to have a chance to kill one. Even the white knight incarnate Drac is on record saying the balance is fine. So don’t worry man, there will be no nerf. All this thread is good for is to show us that op is to dumb to EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/233 "2020-02-05T17:12:13Z")
You do realize the part in italics was sarcasm?? \*whoosh\* ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/234 "2020-02-05T17:13:31Z")
Oh you used your sarcasm voice, sorry 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/235 "2020-02-05T17:23:34Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > Freighters cost about 1.1 bill. So from an empty, fully insured freighter, the pilot still loses at least 500m when he is ganked. A fully tanked freighter with no implants takes 15 or 16 taloses to gank. So gankers spend 1.5 billion isk to kill you whereas you only lose 500 million. Seems balanced towards the freighter pilot. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/236 "2020-02-05T18:06:35Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > So what makes you think I cannot do an easy activity such as hi-sec freighter ganking? Then show us some evidence of you ganking freighters, you random ass accident. Put your money where other people usually have a mouth. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/237 "2020-02-05T18:09:20Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > All this thread is good for is to show us that op is to dumb to EVE. This and pretty much every other thread made by stagnating bipedals who have nothing else to do but stealing precious oxygen from those who require it for keeping their actually active brains running. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/238 "2020-02-05T18:14:19Z")
> [@Dav\_Varan](#): > > Freighter pilots have only 1 game play > > - sit there for 3 minuts doing nothing > > Challenge, Can you possible imagine or design a more exciting gameplay. > No really try. A big mistake there. You said “freighter pilots”, when in truth, its a freighter pilot, singular. Because your scenario puts dozens of gankers against a single freighter pilot. In reality, freighter pilots have more options, more, as you call it, exciting gameplay choices. They can web, logi, counterbump, target gankers, gank the bumping ship, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/239 "2020-02-05T18:37:41Z")
Hey I was ganked without any cargo, OP does have an argument, just need a small gang + alts and you can kill any freighter you wish. Any cargo being hauled is extra. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/240 "2020-02-05T18:47:35Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > just need a small gang + alts and you can kill any freighter you wish Just need an alt and you can avoid any gank you wish. So yes it’s easy, even easier for the freighter pilot to avoid the gank. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/241 "2020-02-05T18:52:59Z")
> Just need an alt and you can avoid any gank you wish. So yes it’s easy, even easier for the freighter pilot to avoid the gank. Aye alt webber can be effective, perhaps the release of capitals into highsec will solve the issue that the OP was highlighting? ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/242 "2020-02-05T19:10:18Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > Hey I was ganked without any cargo That’s because you’re an idiot not because ther is something wrong with the game. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/243 "2020-02-05T19:20:43Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > perhaps the release of capitals into highsec will solve the issue that the OP was highlighting? And perhaps the cure to a rash on your arm is cutting off the arm entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/244 "2020-02-05T19:35:45Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Shooting someone who can’t react, is not a fight. The sentence is true in itself. But since it is impossible that you “can’t react” in EvE, everything is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neivasta_keja_vos/32/183832_2.png) [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neivasta_Keja_vos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/245 "2020-02-05T21:00:02Z")
Just throwing this out there, but isn’t the “golden rule” of eve “ **dont fly what you cant afford to lose** ”? The absence of safety in anything you fly no matter how good you are, how expensive it is, or how careful you might be is one of the aspects of this game that **cannot** be replicated in any other game. If you wanted a space truck simulator, this isn’t it. Even as a relatively new player this is a lesson you learn on day one, sometimes you lose nothing and other days you lose it all. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169.md?page=13)