# Freighters are too cost effective to suicide gank. Need HP increase **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 4, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169 "2020-02-04T15:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/360 "2020-02-06T19:00:05Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And yet any suggestion that their gameplay should be more challenging results in gankers foaming at the mouth and throwing insults around, because they don’t want to actually have to put effort in. Considering that those who die to gankers do not wish to put effort into “not dieing to gankers” I don’t see any problem with opposing most likely silly ideas coming from people who _do not put effort into “not dieing to gankers”_. I remember your “idea” as well. While you might put effort into “not dieing to gankers” your idea was rather bad for a game like EVE, just like most other ideas. Fact is that ganking is what it is. The only way to change ganking is by changing/nerfing/removing the ability to randomly attack anyone in highsec at any point in time, or by removing CONCORD. When it comes to ganking, it’s simply on those who do not wish to die to not die. When you walk around in an area known for higher amounts of criminal behaviour, mindlessly, looking like an attractive target, then you get robbed. It’s what it is. But there’s more to this. Even IF CCP changed suicide ganking into something actually more interesting, as if that was possible, they’d be possibly attempting to “make it more accessible” ending with more people suicide ganking, increasing the amount of threads demanding nerfs. But no, in reality they’d just change it in a way to make it even less attractive than it is now, and _now_, _for years now_, suicide ganking is on an all time low anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/361 "2020-02-06T19:35:07Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > > [@Dav\_Varan](#): > > > > You’re still confused > > Sorry I did not realize English is not your first language. > > I guess you dont understand the nuance of what im trying to say. Its okay, not everyone has an IQ of 90 or above. > > > [@Dav\_Varan](#): > > > > I did say “Freighter Pilots” , to refer to all instances of pilots flying a freighter throughout the game. No one mentioned a grid of freighters. The context was established by the First few line where I made it clear I was talking about the overall gameplay of flying a freighter during a gank interaction. not any singular instance. > > And yet you completely ignored any instance of freighters bringing alts and friends in to help them escape a gank. > > So in essence, you were talking about a singular instance. Because you ignored all other instances. > > > [@Dav\_Varan](#): > > > > You say if you want to have fun you have to bring other ship types on alts > > So you agree with what I was saying “there is no gameplay for the freighter pilot to enjoy”. > > > > Do you think it is good game design to require people to pay multiple omegas in order to have fun ? > > If its to avoid a gank by multiple, dozens of gankers? > > Yes. > > Do you honestly think it would be good game design for a single player, a single character to be able to reasonably counter a dozen other characters, all at the same time? > > Gankers require the collection of many, sometimes even multiple dozens of characters in order to successfully gank you. > > And yet, all it takes is 2, 3 characters to counter it. > > 20 VS 3, and the 3 still win. I think thats more than reasonable. > > > [@Dav\_Varan](#): > > > > Thank you for proving my point. > > Your point was that you were an idiot. And i proved it. No need to thank me, im sure it was obvious to everyone. Nobody is asking for a freighter to be able to counter dozens of characters. It is being asked that HP is increased so those gankers costs are higher if they wish to suicide their ships to kill freighters in concord protected space - to help bring some additional balance to the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/363 "2020-02-06T19:37:43Z")
The 20 gankers is probably 2-10 real players and the rest are alts. ---
**Author:** ![Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neivasta_keja_vos/32/183832_2.png) [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neivasta_Keja_vos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/364 "2020-02-06T19:38:50Z")
And when does it stop? Where do you draw the line? Go ahead double the EHP and the next time a freighter gets suicide ganked and goes salty we will have this thread all over again wanting another buff. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/365 "2020-02-06T19:40:40Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > But what do you expect? > > Something besides the same old pathetic bleating about how PvP needs to be nerfed because EVE is too difficult and everyone is entitled to success. And something besides excuses for why you aren’t going to provide a better mechanic, not just demands for someone else to do it for you. I’d hardly call freighter ganking pvp. ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/366 "2020-02-06T19:40:59Z")
Bot-aspirants should try not being lazy rather than complaining about the cost of laziness. ---
**Author:** ![FairyTail\_Omaristos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fairytail_omaristos/32/145000_2.png) [@FairyTail\_Omaristos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FairyTail_Omaristos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/367 "2020-02-06T19:41:58Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > I’d hardly call freighter ganking pvp. So Players being ganked by Players is what… PvE? Lul ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/368 "2020-02-06T19:43:17Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > I’d hardly call freighter ganking pvp. Is it PVE, then? I’m sure that some agents of the New Halaima Code of Conduct would agree to define it as PVE. ---
**Author:** ![Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neivasta_keja_vos/32/183832_2.png) [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neivasta_Keja_vos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/369 "2020-02-06T19:45:31Z")
PvP = Player vs. Player So by definition ganking is indeed PvP, just because it isn’t approved by @Lucia_Clover doesn’t mean it isnt a viable form of gameplay. I hate gate camping fleets with a passion, but that’s how they choose to play so let them play. Just means I have to strategize to handle that situation. Same goes for you in a freighter, EVE is a high risk game. You’re going to have to learn to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/371 "2020-02-06T19:46:56Z")
> [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](#): > > And when does it stop? Where do you draw the line? > > Go ahead double the EHP and the next time a freighter gets suicide ganked and goes salty we will have this thread all over again wanting another buff. Nobody is calling for freighter ganking to cease entirely. There’s really no need for so many gankers in this thread to continue chucking all of their toys out of the pram. Ganking freighters is easy, and a bit too cheap. Make it cost more, to bring some balance to that equation. If it costs them over 1.5 billion in ships to gank a freighter then gankers should become a bit more selective in their choice of targets. Meaning less ganking of empty or low value freighters. High value freighters will still be highly profitable to gank. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/372 "2020-02-06T19:49:10Z")
> [@FairyTail\_Omaristos](#): > > > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > > > I’d hardly call freighter ganking pvp. > > So Players being ganked by Players is what… PvE? > > Lul Freighter ganking is certainly no harder than equally rewarding PVE in EVE. It’s even easier. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/373 "2020-02-06T19:50:14Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > Nobody is asking for a freighter to be able to counter dozens of characters. It is being asked that HP is increased so those gankers costs are higher if they wish to suicide their ships to kill freighters in concord protected space - to help bring some additional balance to the equation. Okay, so let me suggest this to you. What if CCP added 3 more lowslots, for a total of 6 low slots? The HP of the freighters remain the same, but now you have 6 low slots. Plus whatever increase in CPU/GPU required to fit more bulkheads, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neivasta_keja_vos/32/183832_2.png) [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neivasta_Keja_vos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/374 "2020-02-06T19:50:42Z")
But why stop there, if I can carry 10 billion in a freighter it should cost 10 billion minimum to kill it. That’s the problem with the argument, the target never stops moving. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/375 "2020-02-06T19:53:11Z")
> [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](#): > > PvP = Player vs. Player > > So by definition ganking is indeed PvP, just because it isn’t approved by @Lucia_Clover doesn’t mean it isnt a viable form of gameplay. > > I hate gate camping fleets with a passion, but that’s how they choose to play so let them play. Just means I have to strategize to handle that situation. > > Same goes for you in a freighter, EVE is a high risk game. You’re going to have to learn to deal with it. Freighter ganking is an entirely one sided equation. It’s a player or players with 10 or more characters choosing to suicide their ships to kill expensive very large very slow ships that have no way of fighting back and indeed never planned on getting into a fight, which is why they stay in concord protected space. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/376 "2020-02-06T19:55:58Z")
> [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](#): > > But why stop there, if I can carry 10 billion in a freighter it should cost 10 billion minimum to kill it. > > That’s the problem with the argument, the target never stops moving. No, it doesn’t work like that. Nobody is asking to be able to carry 10 billion in a freighter without it being profitable for gankers to target you. ---
**Author:** ![Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neivasta_keja_vos/32/183832_2.png) [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neivasta_Keja_vos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/377 "2020-02-06T19:57:21Z")
The same could be said for gate campers, bubble traps in null, and fleets roaming around hitting whatever target they come across. What you’re forgetting isn this type of gameplay and learning to counter it is the intended gameplay by design. This is what makes eve exciting. Learn to play, counter, and make some friends who can help you. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/379 "2020-02-06T19:59:47Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > indeed never planned on getting into a fight Well, i think thats the problem. > **[High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection - EVE General...](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/4958992/#post4958992)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. > Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec? > > CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they’re reactive and punitive rather than proactive. > > If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don’t have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you. > > Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back. That was CCP Falcon, a Developer, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/380 "2020-02-06T19:59:49Z")
> [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > The 20 gankers is probably 2-10 real players and the rest are alts. The people who design games have to assume it is 20 customers, even if you want to take the glass half empty approach. ---
**Author:** ![Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neivasta_keja_vos/32/183832_2.png) [@Neivasta\_Keja\_vos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neivasta_Keja_vos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/381 "2020-02-06T20:02:25Z")
You’re not following the logical course of the argument here. Today you want double EHP, a special module that breaks offensive action, more low slots, and a variety of other tools. Implement those changes and people like you, maybe not you specifically, will be back here asking for even more. What’s wrong with the suggestions as to how to counter these situations which have been employed successfully over hundreds if not thousands of freight runs? The solution already exists, so you’re either too lazy or not yet skilled enough to follow through with them. That isnt a development issue, it’s a player issue. ---
**Author:** ![Lucia\_Clover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucia_clover/32/184851_2.png) [@Lucia\_Clover](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucia_Clover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169/382 "2020-02-06T20:03:20Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > > > Ganking freighters is easy > > Your lack of understanding how to properly do what your best at, freighting in high sec, says otherwise. > > If you understood what it really takes in investment with both time and effort you might have a better idea of how to avoid making yourself the biggest target in game. For example, coming onto the forums and expressing your lack of understanding these things might make certain groups want to gank you just for the hell of it. > > It doesn’t need balance what it needs is reaction and planning, something any player is capable of. > > You get ganked and you don’t know what you can possibly do to avoid that so your reaction is to come to the forums and ask CCP to do something about it when their exists solutions in game you simply refuse planning to use next time. > > > [@Lucia\_Clover](#): > > > > It’s a player or players with 10 or more characters choosing to suicide their ships to kill expensive very large very slow ships that have no way of fighting back > > So there is your problem, you’re alone against a player or players with 10 accounts who will suicide gank you. Try and imagine what you could possibly do to make that harder for them but your going to have to bring balance to the equation of trying to first not find a way to do it all by yourself, at least not without more than 1 account who happens to be the poor clone stuck in the ship getting destroyed. > > You need help, either you need alts or friends to help you against a player or groups of players with more than one account. > > If you bring one ship to fight a gang of ships what you don’t need to do is ask CCP to make your one ship more powerful than a gang of ships. You need more ships. > > The answer is in your own questions. You need to bring balance to the equation. If you can’t do it yourself, you need other players who will. Otherwise you are stuck alone against many and the intention is you will lose in that scenario almost every time. > > If ganking is so easy why not do it yourself then? Maybe at least if for anything to understand in the simplest of ways what it is you’re doing wrong with your freighter that makes you such an easy target. > > Try ganking alone with one ship trying to kill a freighter and you will soon understand the irony in understanding the difference of balance in the equation. Nobody is bringing their freighter to fight a gang of ships. There really is no reason for CCP not to give freighters a HP buff. Gankers will still target them, but more selectively in the future unless they wish to self harm by wasting isk on low value gank choices. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighters-are-too-cost-effective-to-suicide-gank-need-hp-increase/217169.md?page=19)