# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 4:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/205 "2021-11-20T04:59:27Z")
> [@Canti\_Ludan](#): > > @CCP_Psych What do the vertical numbers stand for? > > Kinda hard to decipher a graph when the data points used are not defined. > > > [@CCP\_Psych](#): > > > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/c/3/1c3a2fb5256d5c0fa9c6bbfd91e0d7e7a335be69.png) > > > > > image734×486 6.13 KB looks like yield ---
**Author:** ![TiberianSun371AlexW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiberiansun371alexw/32/510819_2.png) [@TiberianSun371AlexW](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TiberianSun371AlexW)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/206 "2021-11-20T05:00:01Z")
Can we have asteroid belts be horshoe shaped, or at least 3/4 or a circle instead of a full circle? ---
**Author:** ![Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fartsniffer_munba/32/248389_2.png) [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fartsniffer_Munba)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/207 "2021-11-20T05:02:07Z")
> [@TiberianSun371AlexW](#): > > More than 3 types will probably overload the devs. They probably don’t know how to balance them properly. It’s going to give them more chances to mess up, and this proposal today is almost correct, so let’s not spoil that shall we and just suggest some minor tweaks to bring things right. We can solve the overload by removing T1 variations for all types. They are all worthless. This proposal today is a dumpster fire tbh, aside from removing T1 waste, everything else is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Miles\_Forrester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miles_forrester/32/489228_2.png) [@Miles\_Forrester](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miles_Forrester)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/208 "2021-11-20T05:04:53Z")
Checking the numbers for intermediate miners: - 675 m3/s for T1 strips - 675 m3/s for T2 strips (Type A crystal, 450 base +50%) So for those that kept training their pvp skills and keep using their T1 crystals for ops, those crystals can be binned since T1 strips have 0% waste? The old T1 crystals gave a 60% bonus over the 50% that it’s at now ---
**Author:** ![Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hyperionus_iapetorii/32/376868_2.png) [@Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hyperionus_Iapetorii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/209 "2021-11-20T05:05:44Z")
> [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](#): > > But now, with T2 current waste, you’ll be getting less of the money ore, if you try to mine it with T2. As a result, those number basically FORCE a miner to use T1 equipment and T1 drones. This is wrong. Faction modules have a 0% waste and a significantly higher yield/second than T1 (drones excluded). The trade-off between YIELD and EFFICIENCY is one that is seen in the relationship between faction and T2 ammo. T2 ammo offers higher raw damage, while faction ammo offers better application. If you’re being forced to make a choice, it’s the choice between “sniping” good rocks with faction gear or steam-rolling belts with T2 gear. The former is clearly preferable for solo miners, but the latter definitely has its place in some fleet mining ops. ---
**Author:** ![Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fartsniffer_munba/32/248389_2.png) [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fartsniffer_Munba)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/210 "2021-11-20T05:09:33Z")
> [@Miles\_Forrester](#): > > those crystals can be binned Absolutely correct. The new T1 crystals are useless, but since nobody would actually use them since we have T2, there aren’t many complaints about that. > [@Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](#): > > This is wrong. Faction modules have a 0% waste and a significantly higher yield/second than T1 675m3 T1, 700m3 faction. That’s a whopping 3.7% difference. For 100 times the cost, I’d say there’s no tradeoff here. > [@Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](#): > > T2 ammo offers higher raw damage, while faction ammo offers better application. Long range guns T2 ammo disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hyperionus_iapetorii/32/376868_2.png) [@Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hyperionus_Iapetorii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/211 "2021-11-20T05:10:48Z")
> [@Ashterothi](#): > > You are fighting over the “bonus” ore added to the rock (rocks were doubled as part of this so even at 100% waste you end up with the same stuff as before, it only goes up without C crystals) I don’t think this is a fair way to look at the situation. It’s too comparative with the current scarcity mindset. Two years ago miners in these changes wouldn’t have been viewed as fighting over “bonus” rocks, but the 30% of rocks that were left after a serious resource nerf. In six months they won’t be “bonus” rocks, they’ll just be rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_Killer21](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/death_killer21/32/484373_2.png) [@Death\_Killer21](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Death_Killer21)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/212 "2021-11-20T05:12:55Z")
Alright then, Remove all combat capabilities from command battlecruisers, Command destroyers, Carriers. These are command ships? That should be there only role… Right? ---
**Author:** ![Blair\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blair_ormand/32/257611_2.png) [@Blair\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blair_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/213 "2021-11-20T05:14:16Z")
Did i miss it or were they as quiet as Church Mice about the amount of ore in the belts? Originally they said they were going to double the amount of ore in the belts, but one penny times 200% is still only two pennies…… Doubling of next to nothing makes most mining improvements still worthless. We need more material or all this is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/214 "2021-11-20T05:15:00Z")
> [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > So what you’re saying is that I am right about the Orca currently being the best sub-capital mining vessel in the game? > > Do you not know what you are talking about?! A Orca is a CAPITAL CLASS ship! LOL Carebears are so mind-numbingly stupid. The Orca is a command ship. It requires no capital ship skills to fly, and its mass is only marginally higher than that of a battleship. How can anyone take you people and your demands seriously when you don’t even understand such basic fundamentals? ---
**Author:** ![Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fartsniffer_munba/32/248389_2.png) [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fartsniffer_Munba)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/215 "2021-11-20T05:17:52Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Carebears are so mind-numbingly stupid. People who play eve but can’t do industry are ignorant morons. Orca requires capital parts to build, and capital ship construction skills to start the build. But we know you’re just here to troll with your ignorance, so just keep entertaining us with how dumb you are. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Psych](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_psych/32/268632_2.png) [@CCP\_Psych](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Psych)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/216 "2021-11-20T05:18:56Z")
The new skill will give a reduction to quantity consumption. ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/217 "2021-11-20T05:19:21Z")
> [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > > So what you’re saying is that I am right about the Orca currently being the best sub-capital mining vessel in the game? > > > [/quote] > > > > > > Do you not know what you are talking about?! A Orca is a CAPITAL CLASS ship! > > LOL > > Carebears are so mind-numbingly stupid. > > The Orca is a command ship. It requires no capital ship skills to fly, and its mass is only marginally higher than that of a battleship. > > How can anyone take you people and your demands seriously when you don’t even understand such basic fundamentals? ![Screenshot 2021-11-20 001838](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/9/c/d9c6c4865cf702ec4915f96eb10514796ba8b2e6.png) Orca not being a capital ship, good one , good one. ---
**Author:** ![TiberianSun371AlexW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiberiansun371alexw/32/510819_2.png) [@TiberianSun371AlexW](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TiberianSun371AlexW)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/218 "2021-11-20T05:19:35Z")
> [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](#): > > This proposal today is a dumpster fire tbh, aside from removing T1 waste, everything else is just wrong. If you think _today_ was a dumpster fire what do you think last week was? ---
**Author:** ![Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fartsniffer_munba/32/248389_2.png) [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fartsniffer_Munba)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/219 "2021-11-20T05:21:57Z")
> [@TiberianSun371AlexW](#): > > If you think _today_ was a dumpster fire what do you think last week was? I’ll say it again. The only part of today that is better is T1 waste. Everything else is worse, and that is after we gave extensive feedback on why what was bad is bad. So yeah, the dumpster fire it is today is certainly blazing higher than last week. The move was made, and one point aside, it was made demonstratively backwards. ---
**Author:** ![zackthecronsmoker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zackthecronsmoker/32/337517_2.png) [@zackthecronsmoker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zackthecronsmoker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/220 "2021-11-20T05:22:40Z")
i hope i’m not alone in this but here’s my view… it was perfectly fine before the changes. i’m use to the old way and loved it. it was great and i dont want any changes so when i red the first post i was like wtf this is dumb like wtf we’re they thinking. i’m not mad just really disappointed and this new change is better but its still far from what it was. it needs to be rolled back to original settings and leave it be. ---
**Author:** ![Shinigami\_Shinda](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shinigami_shinda/32/395448_2.png) [@Shinigami\_Shinda](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shinigami_Shinda)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/221 "2021-11-20T05:25:14Z")
Om boy. All you should have done is waste of T2 Atype as T1 so that there is no real difference for waste. With the waste rn it would mean either use t1 or fraction on R64 moons. Well on the other side I can use all t2 crystals and still use the t1 on moons by the alliance since it’s 00 and cheap and does the job seems nice. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Diomedes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_diomedes/32/288236_2.png) [@Lord\_Diomedes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Diomedes)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/222 "2021-11-20T05:26:22Z")
However yes you need capital ship construction to build it yet you do not need capital ship skill to fly it ---
**Author:** ![Death\_Killer21](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/death_killer21/32/484373_2.png) [@Death\_Killer21](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Death_Killer21)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/223 "2021-11-20T05:26:25Z")
Why was this changed though jim? What was CCP’s statement when they made the changes to the orca and rorqual initially? That they wanted the ships to be used, On field and by players where they are risked, Not just sat in a POS. Look at them now, They want them to just be put back in a POS, No sane person is going to risk fielding a 10bill Rorqual, Thats stuck in place for 5 minutes, Is now harder to fit a tank due to increased core fitting requirements, To boost their fleet 6% more than a 200m porpoise. Same for the orca, Noone is going to risk 1.8b hull to boost a fleet, there is no gain to that pilot then… ---
**Author:** ![Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hyperionus_iapetorii/32/376868_2.png) [@Hyperionus\_Iapetorii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hyperionus_Iapetorii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/224 "2021-11-20T05:28:24Z")
> [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](#): > > 675m3 T1, 700m3 faction. > That’s a whopping 3.7% difference. For 100 times the cost, I’d say there’s no tradeoff here. I was comparing to Lasers, not the T1 Strip Miners, good point. ^^ The yield of faction gear should probably be weighted against T2 a little more in faction’s favor. Current costs of faction gear aren’t a reliable basis for argument, though, as supply will rise drastically over the next few months to meet new demand for what was, previously, a fairly pointless purchase. > [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](#): > > Long range guns T2 ammo disagrees. While my analogy is not perfect in every possible situation you could apply it to, my point stands - there generally is, and generally should be, a trade-off between choosing faction and T2 gear. Creating a choice of efficiency or speed is an appropriate tradeoff, and the presence of a meaningful reason to use faction miners has been lacking for quite some time. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=12)