# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 128
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2594 "2021-12-09T23:14:18Z")
> [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](#): > > The problem here is afk Orcas in ice belts in moon and ice belts. Those are a problem, especially in highsec, where you have no method of effectively removing them outside of ganking. > > The other option would have been to drastically reduce the amount of ore inside moon and ice roids, so you can not just park next to a roid, do something else for an hour and come back to collect your ore. LOL, yo my guy how is that even an issue ? Does the ice belt or the moon chunks sits on your property or something ? Why do you want to “remove” them , just let them be what are they to you ? Nerfing the amount of moon ores / ice ores in ice belts because of “ONE” ship ? because you think it’s “unfair” that they stay there for a long time ? you have issues my dude. They don’t have a bottomless pit of m3 storage , they have to dock to unload at some point. Don’t worry you can still mine the ores there even when they are present. Guess what buddy , if you’re using a mackinaw you can mine even faster than they do ! This gotta be a troll post. ---
**Author:** ![Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divine_commodore_malpherean/32/300084_2.png) [@Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divine_Commodore_Malpherean)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2595 "2021-12-09T23:16:14Z")
You mean the Moogly shop? Oh yea no in game shop… Actually it does have one. And even if FF XIV didn’t, every other one does. 1 exception does not change the reality of the rest. So no I am not xenophobic, I simply stated a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divine_commodore_malpherean/32/300084_2.png) [@Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divine_Commodore_Malpherean)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2596 "2021-12-09T23:20:00Z")
Only a desperate fool, copes and adapts to ■■■■■■■■ instead of finding a better place to live and prosper. As a capsuleer, you should be gunning for the best and brightest future, not excepting poor development, BS policies, and complete nerfs that utterly destroy the game. ---
**Author:** ![Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divine_commodore_malpherean/32/300084_2.png) [@Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divine_Commodore_Malpherean)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2597 "2021-12-10T00:51:34Z")
You like EvE turning into a gankfest and grind fest where the only people who play are Trolls, Gankers, and Mission Runners? I mean if thats you do you. But if thats what you want there are in fact much better games for it. I mean if your one of the above I can udnerstand your sentiment, but look at it this way… Sustainability. What your going to get is a decline in your targets. Because they will leave the game. So no more ganking for you after awhile. And eventually stockpiles will run out. What then? With industry destroyed (as seems to be the goal), your wont be buying ships and ammo and what you can find you will not be able to afford to gank in. It amazes me how many PvPers/Gankers/Etc, Truly have no idea how economics work. They think EvE is just about getting in your ship and shooting crap… But never remember that the eve market is supplied by industrialists. Without Industry, EvE dies. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divine_commodore_malpherean/32/300084_2.png) [@Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divine_Commodore_Malpherean)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2599 "2021-12-10T01:37:33Z")
Calling him a Carebear is an insult to Carebears… ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2600 "2021-12-10T01:51:03Z")
> [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](#): > > The problem here is afk Orcas in ice belts in moon and ice belts. Those are a problem, especially in highsec, where you have no method of effectively removing them outside of ganking. > > The other option would have been to drastically reduce the amount of ore inside moon and ice roids, so you can not just park next to a roid, do something else for an hour and come back to collect your ore. In null / low / j-space, you can have such an orca get a record on zkillboard fairly easy. In high, you can grab your scythe fleet issue, vagabond, cynaball, osprey navy issue, or whatever else has nice fitting cap and movement speed, put an oversized MWD on it and bump the orca to send it off grid. Even w/o being an experienced bumper, you should be able to send a whale so far out of the belt that it cannot mine economically any more rather easily … … but if you use the opportunity to practice the highly useful art of bumping with the afk whale, you’ll soon be able to push whales so far off grid that their slowish drones cannot keep track and distance themselves more then 500km from the whale, at which point the whale can no longer connect to them. Takes a bit of time to push a whale so far out, but in return you scoop it’s drone(s), which in for augmented ice drones compensates you with a 40M asset and for augmented ore drones with about 100M assets for your effort, while also neutralizing the whale. > [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](#): > > That would actually nerf Rorquals as well, so it would be a good idea. My guess why CCP did not go that route is that to keep ice and moon ore amounts the same, they would need to increase the amount of asteroids in the belts at the same time, putting more objects on the server. A nerf for afk whales also hitting afk crabs is hardly something to be sad about, but it’ll hit all the other miners, too. A 2 week moon pull has _some_ 150k m^3 rocks, but a 6 week pull has no rocks smaller then 150 m^3. halving that would still allow an orca to afk for hours on a single rock in 6w land while crippling the more yieldful non-afk barge fleets, while in a 2w belt the orca might split it’s drones over multiple rocks, while barge fleets retreat from the tiny rock belt and go to mine 6w belts instead. They’re redundandly available to most players, in the worst case you have to pay a permit / “mining tax”, but some permit is still cheaper then the damage caused by the microscopic rocks. If you wanted to fix afk mining, you would do the waste thing properly, i.e. waste transforms into toxic gas clouds that spawn on the location of the ship that scooped the corresponding ore whenever waste fairy steals ore. The clouds have 1km radius and inflict some not-so-greatish damage at pathetic application, such as 1k dps with 10km explotion size and 10m/s explotion velocity, so they deal about no damage to subcaps that are moving, but the waste clouds are cummulative in their damage, so if 2 mining cycles spawn waste, there’s 2 clouds each dealing that damage, and as afk whales don’t move, they’ll start building up multiple dps sources on their crabbing spot, while also being projected more damage as they are stationary. The waste gas cloud is a gas cloud, so any venture/prospect can scoop it quickly to dispose of the threat, and maybe gain some gas. AFK whales will spawn so many damage sources on their whale that they cannot keep crabbing for hours AFK, while non afk-players will move the whale for 1km every time they spawned too many clouds, and mining fleets have a venture that defaults to 2 miners but keeps 2 gas harvesters in it’s cargo bay and refits at the orca or in a citadel whenever there’s enough gas clouds to endanger the fleet or to render a profit by gas scooping rather then ore mining. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2601 "2021-12-10T03:35:01Z")
> [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](#): > > i believe you get a criminal status for using type-c crystals , so none of that in high sec No you don’t… That was removed to be reviewed at a later date. It’s in the update to the update of the update to this dev blog. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2602 "2021-12-10T04:12:19Z")
> [@Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](#): > > It amazes me how many PvPers/Gankers/Etc, Truly have no idea how economics work. …and it sometimes amazes me how miners/industrialists think that gankers have no dedicated miners/industrialists (either alts or friends) producing their tools for them at-cost (or cheaper, because ‘no poors’)… ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2603 "2021-12-10T05:23:09Z")
So, did you wait until they added F2P before you started playing EVE? Before Alpha clones, everybody had to pay to play EVE. There is a perfectly good reason why Alpha clones do not get anything above a venture for mining. ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2604 "2021-12-10T06:58:23Z")
> [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](#): > > The problem here is afk Orcas in ice belts in moon and ice belts. Those are a problem, especially in highsec, where you have no method of effectively removing them outside of ganking. Firstly, **you do not know that they are AFK**. You just assume that they are AFK. Nobody, not even CCP, can tell if there is someone at the keyboard or not. Secondly, you clearly had not ice mined in an Orca in recent months. Multiboxed fleets of exhumers, usually boosted, will devastate an ice field faster than locusts. The solo Orca player might start on a virgin asteroid, but would be lucky to get more than 25 or so units - sometimes more, often less - before the locusts barged in on that asteroid. Go AFK for more than a pee break and you would be looking at a very sad amount in the hold and an even sadder drone orbiting you. The only place where AFK might work in HS in reality would be moon mining. If it is your moon, so what? How does AFK ruin the game when you have invested the effort to extract the moon chunk in the first place. And if it is not your moon, and you go AFK, expect to get bumped by the irritated owners of the field… But hey, people like you spouting ignorant nonsense is all that CCP needs as an excuse to nerf the solo miner… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2605 "2021-12-10T07:07:06Z")
Again, not in-game, and with the exception of game time and clothes not for ingame items. The fact you lump alk “Asian developers” games together in your negative context is xenophobia, because your assertion is untrue. Just stating a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2606 "2021-12-10T07:28:01Z")
It’s really not hard to tell the difference between an AFK Orca and an ATK Orca… ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2607 "2021-12-10T07:38:57Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > It’s really not hard to tell the difference between an AFK Orca and an ATK Orca… Actually, it is. I repeat, you do not, **cannot** , know. All the stuff that is usually quoted is rubbish: “He does not respond to me when I try to talk to him” - maybe they don’t want to talk. Why should they? “I bumped him and he could not get his drone back, ha, ha, ha” - I have been bumped many times, and since I do not mine AFK, I was never AFK on those occasions. And guess what, the bumper did not stop when I invited him to leave me alone. Don’t tell the bumper to piss off, they claim that they are nobly cleaning up “AFK filth”; tell the bumper to piss off, and they just accuse you of being salty… all they really want is to nick your drone! But bonus marks if they can falsely claim to be the AFK Police! What we are talking about here is, gosh, a ship sitting stationary whilst its drones mine. Mine quite slowly. Therefore sits there quite a long time, with limited actions per minute. But this is seen as the greatest sin in the game, and anyone who sits there, is accused of evil beneath contempt, like a modern day witch-finding hysteria - all assumption and prejudice, no knowledge or sound basis. But hey, burn the witch! ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2608 "2021-12-10T08:47:43Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > “AFK filth” It certainly is bad… Imagine, putting your Orca alt in an ice belt to mine, then going to sit on a gate in lowsec with your main waiting for victims. Damn, two AFK “filth” play styles - At the same time. What is the world coming to. CCP fix this. The AFK police demand it. Sorry [Vortigern Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis) I just couldn’t help myself. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmon\_Aliatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shalmon_aliatus/32/392805_2.png) [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shalmon_Aliatus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2609 "2021-12-10T08:50:38Z")
I actually like the idea of a toxic buildup around asteroids that are mined, slowly causing the area around that roid to be hostile, forcing you to move around in the belt or have some other form to negate the cloud by mining from range or removing the cloud. Maybe even repairing your mining ship with the remote shield boosters your Orca/Rorqual has a bonus for, keeping drones alive would be tough so you might want to change position more often as a Porpoise/Orca/Rorqual solo miner. The only problem I see is new players warping to a belt and instantly die, but maybe that can be fixed by moving the default warp-in for belts far enough away that this can’t happen? ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2610 "2021-12-10T08:52:10Z")
> [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](#): > > toxic buildup around asteroids that are mined That’s called Mercoxit mining. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmon\_Aliatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shalmon_aliatus/32/392805_2.png) [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shalmon_Aliatus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2611 "2021-12-10T09:00:38Z")
I know that it already exists. Now we just need it on all roids, but with slowly increasing damage (I remember those Mercoxit clouds hurting quite a bit) so that you have time to react and move away. You could even do highsec PvP mining with C-Crystals to create the toxic clouds faster. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2612 "2021-12-10T09:05:33Z")
> [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](#): > > Now we just need it on all roids, but with slowly increasing damage Yeah why not make mining even more toxic than it already is. The most boring and unfulfilling activity in the game really needs more toxicity added to it. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmon\_Aliatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shalmon_aliatus/32/392805_2.png) [@Shalmon\_Aliatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shalmon_Aliatus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2613 "2021-12-10T09:21:32Z")
Having to react to environmental changes and effects would make mining less boring… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2614 "2021-12-10T10:03:38Z")
> [@Divine\_Commodore\_Malpherean](#): > > The larger roids were put in place to accent the residue or waste mechanic. Remember that a % is based on a total. THe larger the number the % is from the larger the actual %. > > So if you waste 5% (Example) of 5000 you will waste (Residue) less > > Than if you were to Residue (Waste) 5% of 25,000 > > Because 5% (Example) of 25,000 IS more then 5% of 5000 > > So basically the **increase to the roid size was not a buff to resources, but in fact a major nerf** to a miners ability to acquire them. As when you cycle the waste/residue down to 0 from the number you **waste 50% to 80% of the larger Roid value vs 15% to 35% of a smaller roid value.** > > The problem is that CCP thinks it’s players are stupid and **can not do basic math** , when _(Bolded relevant parts.)_ The irony. A percentage of a larger rock is still the same percentage. It’s more waste in absolute terms, but you do not suddenly waste a higher _percentage_ of the rock when the rocks are bigger. Anyway, as even the ‘big waste’ type B crystals allow you to gain over 60% of the units of a rock, double rock size means you get over 20% more than pre-patch amounts of ore from a rock for wasteful mining. And it’s even better at 40% more units or 100% more units for type A or T1 mining respectively. It’s a buff to ore supply, simple as that. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=127) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=129)