# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2695 "2021-12-14T09:07:40Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > It is just that they don’t know **how** to make things more enjoyable. It’s a case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Different types of players like different things which means that whatever change CCP makes there’s always people whining about it. The trick for them is to get the whining balanced so if both “sides” whine equally they did their job right. Beyond that people lie a lot and rage a lot just for the sake of raging. For instance, miners SAY they want a more interactive mining system but the second CCP actually does so they’ll cry and whine because they didn’t want that _at all_, they were just lying. That’s part of the reason why it’s good to get rid of the chronic whiners as they whine about everything and thus add no nuance. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2696 "2021-12-14T09:46:05Z")
> [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > CCP knows things we don’ The only thing that CCP has proven time and again is that they don’t know anything, let alone some things. This update is the best example for this simple truth. They had to almost completely rework their features, had to scrap features from it because of lack of understanding and had to delay other features also because of lack of understanding. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > For instance, miners SAY they want a more interactive mining system but the second CCP actually does so they’ll cry and whine because they didn’t want that _at all_, they were just lying. And here you are again with your lies. I, for instance, have detailed multiple times how CCP can combine both worlds for an overall better gameplay experience that suits more passive oriented people as well as more active oriented people. But as it has been shown in the last years, CCP is not competent enough to do that properly and instead only reaches for the lowest hanging fruit, the development that’s easiest to implement and causes the maximum amount of annoyance. > [@Oskar\_Milde](#): > > this major update changes what gameplay may be suited to you in your particular situation. Have a play with the new mechanics, I don’t have to. Constructive feedback made it so that CCP did not trash my preferred activity and that I can still enjoy it like before without much negative impact. That was achieved thanks to the constructive criticism from all sorts of people that most of you call “whining”. The original changes would have meant nothing but annoyance and no improvements whatsoever. The way it is now the game has improved a tiny little bit because I now can cause my competition even more grief. Has the game overall improved? No. Has it not gotten worse for me? Just barely compared to the months since the industry changes, but it has gotten much worse since before the industry changes and now has the potential to get even worse. ![REDNES](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/6/5/96524d53cb22e8d34dff925203908c55729b363e.png) ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2697 "2021-12-14T09:53:32Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > CCP has proven time and again is that they don’t know anything and … block don’t bother describing your deep grok of net-serv-rasrtucture EDIT please consider taking to heart the difference between promoting a thought and belabouring a point of view ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2698 "2021-12-14T10:23:42Z")
Both are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Snowflake\_Tem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/snowflake_tem/32/432971_2.png) [@Snowflake\_Tem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Snowflake_Tem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2699 "2021-12-14T10:32:43Z")
allow me to culturally appropriate a moment observe the heron vigilant patience isn’t wrong location is all I rudely assert that there must be a bit of yang in any good yin to reach blissful balance ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2700 "2021-12-14T11:09:08Z")
Yet both are very common in every day life on TQ. Whether they be in space or docked up, the game play they are engaging in leads to periods of AFK play. So if both are wrong, how would you fix it. Keeping in mind your assertion, AFK play shouldn’t be encouraged and there should be consequences for it. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2701 "2021-12-14T11:16:53Z")
> [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > observe the heron > vigilant patience isn’t wrong > location is all The Heron cannot be described as vigilant _and_ patient in her pursuit of food if her elegant limbs are in the river whilst her eyes regard the mountain-top. She will go hungry, that day. > [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > there must be a bit of yin in any good yang to reach blissful balance ‘Yin’ and ‘Yang’ only appear to be opposites, because the scholars have decided to make them so. In truth, _integrity_ is better than that which you call ‘balance’; and it cannot take place whilst one remains fixated on concepts devised by fools for lesser fools to follow. Bliss as the outcome of Balance is, ultimately, sterile. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2702 "2021-12-14T11:19:53Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > how would you fix it. I wouldn’t fix it. People must do as they wish - whether or not I think they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2703 "2021-12-14T11:21:51Z")
> [@Snowflake\_Tem](#): > > please consider taking to heart the difference between promoting a thought and belabouring a point of view good suggestion. You seem to be really into belabouring your “point of view” with an obsessive fervor. Even after you blocked me you needed to edit your post to put this line in. It borders religious zeal to see reason in CCP’s activity when it’s actually devoid of it. All kinds of examples and developments prove my point of view. What can you show to support your claim that CCP understands something? ![REDNES](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/6/5/96524d53cb22e8d34dff925203908c55729b363e.png) ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2704 "2021-12-14T11:35:00Z")
Ok so let me get this straight, there should be consequences for AFK mining but other forms of AFK are ok? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2705 "2021-12-14T11:53:47Z")
‘should be’ are important words here. I have said that I regard both as wrong. I have said that I would not fix the behaviour. You will not find anywhere in my posting history an instance in which I have suggested what CCP (or anyone else) should do about AFK gameplay. I do not believe there ‘should be’ anything. Things are, or they are not. Perhaps you mistake ‘me’ for ‘you’. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2706 "2021-12-14T12:11:43Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > You will not find anywhere in my posting history an instance in which I have suggested what CCP (or anyone else) should do about AFK gameplay. No, I know you didnt say CCP should do anything aboutit but what you did say was, there should be consequences to AFK mining. I guess Im just curious as to why you say miners who AFK should have consequences but other forms of AFK play shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2707 "2021-12-14T12:54:34Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > what you did say was, there should be consequences to AFK mining. I don’t recall saying that, but if I did, I did, and thanks for pointing it out. It is clear that there _are_ potential consequences involved with all AFK activity, and I’m fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2708 "2021-12-14T14:05:05Z")
You forgot to mention skill training, you have to be logged in and active in the game always hitting the resume button every 5 minutes or else your 12days skill will stop… “AFK is not really EVE, Right?” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2709 "2021-12-14T14:16:57Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Then they shout very very loudly about bad mechanics and CCP respond with changes which ………well you know about changes…… you lose your mind when the change a font. How does getting locked in place for 2 and a half minute consuming fuel in the process while also nerfing the yield which in return makes it so you have to spend even more time in this “afk” state a solution to this ? Don’t kid yourself here. CCP did not pushed these changes to get rid of “AFK” Orcas. AFK Orcas are not a concerned or an issue for CCP. What is an issue for CCP is the revenue , they rather come up with a system that discourage Single accounts user and force them to pay for a second one. That’s their goal , everything they do or change is towards that goal. ---
**Author:** ![WindRider9](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/windrider9/32/280759_2.png) [@WindRider9](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/WindRider9)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2710 "2021-12-14T14:25:43Z")
I wish someone would just post a video of the orca yield so we can finalize this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2711 "2021-12-14T14:54:55Z")
not many people would watch the entirety of a 10 hours youtube video showcasing the orca mining ice. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2712 "2021-12-14T15:04:28Z")
> [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](#): > > How does getting locked in place for 2 and a half minute consuming fuel in the process while also nerfing the yield which in return makes it so you have to spend even more time in this “afk” state a solution to this ? Where did I say it was? > [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](#): > > Don’t kid yourself here. CCP did not pushed these changes to get rid of “AFK” Orcas. AFK Orcas are not a concerned or an issue for CCP. What is an issue for CCP is the revenue , they rather come up with a system that discourage Single accounts user and force them to pay for a second one. That’s their goal , everything they do or change is towards that goal. Where did I say these changes combated afk.? I was taking part in a discussion about why people think AFK was bad in a far more global sense than specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2713 "2021-12-14T15:25:58Z")
You said you don’t mind if someone is AFK , i don’t either. CCP doesn’t care either. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > The big issue for me at least isn’t that someone is afk. That’s their choice. It’s that the refuse accept the consequences of being afk. Then they shout very very loudly about bad mechanics But then there’s this… To get the most yield out of the Orca you have to use the LiC which locks you up. AFK or Not afk this is a death sentence waiting to happen. There’s no PANIC there’s no increase eHp survivability with that trap they’ve put in. It is a bad mechanic, seriously the bonus coming out of that garbage is not worth the risk on that expensive ship to use. Let alone the training time it requires to make your Orca functional again. I rather invest that training time in a Mackinaw instead and let that Orca collect dust in my station. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/2714 "2021-12-14T15:44:15Z")
> [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](#): > > not many people would watch the entirety of a 10 hours youtube video showcasing the orca mining ice. Actually, as long as the local chat user overview is fully visible, I could even imagine some major alliances to offer you paying your omega subscription in order to get access to that youtube stream 24/7 😃 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=132) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=134)