# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Hazen\_Koraka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hazen_koraka/32/395218_2.png) [@Hazen\_Koraka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hazen_Koraka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/795 "2021-11-21T14:15:23Z")
What a waste ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/796 "2021-11-21T14:15:26Z")
> [@Cara\_Lube](#): > > That change is what enables the non-afk miner to react. Two catalysts are able to gank any barge/exhumer but proc and skiff currently in highsec and thats the issue. two players entering local is sth that drowns in 90+% of highsec locals if that is upped lets say 6 catas to effectively gank those miners the miner has the option to think about leaving grid when the amount of players in local e.g. doubles within a few minutes. its about having a choice in the risk vs. reward game. Well first of all, an EHP increase won’t help you react faster, because once the EHP comes into play, it’s past the reaction phase. Second, this sounds like an edge case argument to me. The target has to be both active, and react on assumption. No practical difference would be observed in any other situation, as the difference between 2 gankers and 6 is negligible. And even in your case, if the gankers observe you getting off-grid during a local spike, they will attempt again later on with the assistance of a suicide tackle. The target hull is simply _worth it._ > [@Cara\_Lube](#): > > And as i said a few times i would not care about their survivability if their price-tag would resemble the pricetag of ships required to gank them. > + > to differntiate them from other ships? Bye damagepotential and haul capacity, wich miners have “none” currently. Or du you mean in between barges and exhumers? I think the trick isn’t to balance different mining hulls against ganking cost, but to make expensive, paper-thin hulls worth using in specific circumstances. For example, if you needed a Hulk to mine specific rare asteroid spawns that could net you much bigger profits, the risk-reward equation could be balanced out. As is, yeah, it’s not really “worth it” to use something like a Hulk for a 15% extra yield or whatever unless you’re 100% active or are mining somewhere safe. ---
**Author:** ![Hazen\_Koraka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hazen_koraka/32/395218_2.png) [@Hazen\_Koraka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hazen_Koraka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/797 "2021-11-21T14:16:33Z")
What does it all mean? Seems horrendously over-complicated ---
**Author:** ![Kylanti\_Hendar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kylanti_hendar/32/385538_2.png) [@Kylanti\_Hendar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kylanti_Hendar)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/798 "2021-11-21T14:20:13Z")
I never said I was trying to make a profit, I’m simply keeping my characters subbed, the skill training covers the bulk of the cost. I’m also trying to point out that the fleets of gankers aren’t paying for 25 omega accounts, when the accounts themselves are self sustaining with only minimal input. ---
**Author:** ![aldarrin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldarrin/32/279769_2.png) [@aldarrin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/aldarrin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/799 "2021-11-21T14:20:49Z")
> [@Mynutor](#): > > What is the reasoning/lore behind the fact that compressed ores take up less space than the minerals? Because otherwise folks would just move the minerals to market (the distribution of resources idea doesn’t work if you can’t buy materials unavailable in your space). If you want people to buy compressed ore at Jita instead of minerals or goo, it needs to be smaller. ---
**Author:** ![Hazen\_Koraka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hazen_koraka/32/395218_2.png) [@Hazen\_Koraka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hazen_Koraka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/800 "2021-11-21T14:21:16Z")
> [@Mynutor](#): > > What is the reasoning/lore behind the fact that compressed ores take up less space than the minerals? Isn’t it obvious that compressed ore is more dense? That’s just common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Hazen\_Koraka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hazen_koraka/32/395218_2.png) [@Hazen\_Koraka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hazen_Koraka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/801 "2021-11-21T14:23:32Z")
> [@CCP\_Psych](#): > > With regards to the feedback around new players, we’ve altered the mechanics such that low yield modules have zero waste, and higher yield modules have more waste, following the paradigm established with the new mining crystals (see below). I don’t get this part… Higher mining yields means more waste? Then what’s the point of getting a better mining module and improved module, if it wastes more?? ---
**Author:** ![SheoFapped](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sheofapped/32/296497_2.png) [@SheoFapped](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SheoFapped)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/802 "2021-11-21T14:26:04Z")
> [@CCP\_Psych](#): > > ## Mining Frigates & Porpoise > > All proposed changes to the Venture, Expedition Frigates, and Porpoise are being reverted with one exception: they will still be getting the additional Gas/Ice bays as relevant. Ninja mining, as a career, is something we absolutely love and have no intentions of removing this playstyle. Rather, we want to enable more playstyles on top of it. Oh Thank Bob, that would have been horrible before, I’m glad CCP heard us on this. ---
**Author:** ![SheoFapped](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sheofapped/32/296497_2.png) [@SheoFapped](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SheoFapped)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/803 "2021-11-21T14:29:39Z")
From a lore perspective, being like one of the highest tech sci-fi universes, it makes no sense why we wouldn’t have solutions for that, but I think, I THINK they are trying to use the logic of careful steady accurate extraction vs quick and rough hasty extraction, in that case it makes sense that some ore would be wasted if you extract too fast I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Hazen\_Koraka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hazen_koraka/32/395218_2.png) [@Hazen\_Koraka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hazen_Koraka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/804 "2021-11-21T14:31:19Z")
Careful and steady would imply some sort of skill at mining, but mining being a semi-passive activity doesn’t have any active skills - it being based rather than being efficient on time and using the right tools for the job. I don’t see how getting an improved and upgraded module would make things worse? Seems contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Nessy\_Knuffknuff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nessy_knuffknuff/32/388905_2.png) [@Nessy\_Knuffknuff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nessy_Knuffknuff)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/805 "2021-11-21T14:40:58Z")
**What do you guys thing with giveingthe Rorqual an industrial jump portal generator?** that it can provide mining support in nullsec for bargues and ore hauling? **And how is it to make the Primae the first ORE Houler ever existed?** I mean hauling is nothing strange to ORE Ships Fleet Hangar: 10000 Ore, Ice Gas Hold: 30000 (Hoarder gets the = 2500 Planetary instead ; And Kryos stays at its Mineral hold: = 43000) ORE Industrial bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Fleet Hangar and ore hold capacity Role Bonus: +250% Tractor Beam range +100% Tractor Beam velocity **And how is it to make the Porpoise an “expedition industial command ship”?** **Role Bonus:** Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to ship cargo and ore hold capacity 2% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst effect strength and duration 100% bonus to Logistic Drone transfer amount Expedition Command Ships bonuses (per skill level): 20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement 7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light, Medium, and Heavy Drone hit points and damage 20% bonus to Logistic Drone transfer amount Role Bonus: 90% reduction in powergrid requirements for Command and Mining Foreman Burst Modules • Can use 2 Command Burst modules • Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator • Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator • Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue 50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration 100% bonus to Tractor Beam range 50% bonus to Tractor Beam velocity 300% bonus to Survey Scanner range PS: None of this velues are final,… these are just ideas to see what i had in mind with those ships. ---
**Author:** ![Cara\_Lube](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cara_lube/32/297237_2.png) [@Cara\_Lube](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cara_Lube)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/806 "2021-11-21T15:07:46Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Well first of all, an EHP increase won’t help you react faster, because once the EHP comes into play, it’s past the reaction phase. Thats absolutly correct, it won’t make me react faster. It would make it possible to react at all. and thats significant! As you are absolutly correct no EHP would help you survive a gank, but having enough EHP to identify a gank before it happens due to their numbers makes it possible to survive. currently we are at a spot where it is practicly impossible to do so unless the ganker is so kind to join Code or Safety. ---
**Author:** ![Ulitharid\_Alhoon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulitharid_alhoon/32/387855_2.png) [@Ulitharid\_Alhoon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ulitharid_Alhoon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/807 "2021-11-21T15:07:52Z")
You are not wrong. I know for sure that accounts were self sustaining once set up before the war and scarcity. 1 or 25 it didn’t matter. Sad but very true I agree that this is the right directions to nerf the AFK players. I’m trying to point out the Orca is nothing more than a loot piñata waiting to be found for EVERYONE else. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/808 "2021-11-21T15:09:45Z")
> [@Cara\_Lube](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > Well first of all, an EHP increase won’t help you react faster, because once the EHP comes into play, it’s past the reaction phase. > > Thats absolutly correct, it won’t make me react faster. It would make it possible to react at all. and thats significant! > As you are absolutly correct no EHP would help you survive a gank, but having enough EHP to identify a gank before it happens due to their numbers makes it possible to survive. > currently we are at a spot where it is practicly impossible to do so unless the ganker is so kind to join Code or Safety. But how? Gankers don’t stagger their shooters. Once you start getting shot, it’s too late. You either warp out before they get on grid and tackle you, or you die. EHP doesn’t help you react or run away faster. If you escape before the gank begins, it doesn’t matter whether you have a thousand EHP, or a million. ---
**Author:** ![dakker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dakker/32/312433_2.png) [@dakker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dakker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/809 "2021-11-21T15:15:11Z")
So, sounds like orca and porpoise should have ecm burst bonuses vs logi ones to help more ships escape vs attempting to tank the untankable ---
**Author:** ![Cara\_Lube](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cara_lube/32/297237_2.png) [@Cara\_Lube](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cara_Lube)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/810 "2021-11-21T15:18:30Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > But how? By the same methods used in null, getting of grid the moment a suspicous/dangerous amount of players arrive in your system but currently using a hulk is like being permanently under the effects of the “Blackout” patch. and you know what that did to the game… ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/811 "2021-11-21T15:20:29Z")
> [@dakker](#): > > So, sounds like orca and porpoise should have ecm burst bonuses vs logi ones to help more ships escape vs attempting to tank the untankable Better than nothing, but targeted ECM (or counter-shooters) is better because it won’t get the defenders also killed by CONCORD. > [@Cara\_Lube](#): > > By the same methods used in null, getting of grid the moment a suspicous/dangerous amount of players arrive in your system but currently using a hulk is like being permanently under the effects of the “Blackout” patch. and you know what that did to the game… That doesn’t answer my question. You said that a higher EHP would help you react and escape faster. Can you explain how a higher EHP would help you better _avoid_ a gank, instead of being better able to _survive_ one? ---
**Author:** ![Cara\_Lube](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cara_lube/32/297237_2.png) [@Cara\_Lube](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cara_Lube)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/812 "2021-11-21T15:26:49Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > That doesn’t answer my question. You said that a higher EHP would help you react and escape faster. Never said that, I said it would help me to react and escape _ **at all** _. as it would give me the opportunity to get off grid when a suspicous amount of players/gankers enters my system. currently that amount is so low that it is impossible to identify thx to the abyssmal EHP. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/813 "2021-11-21T15:29:07Z")
I still don’t understand. Why would the EHP amount matter _before_ you’re getting shot? Your EHP amount has no effect on how much time you have to react to a potential threat. Are you perhaps confusing EHP with ship agility/align time? ---
**Author:** ![Thematic\_Chaos\_Eto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thematic_chaos_eto/32/424283_2.png) [@Thematic\_Chaos\_Eto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thematic_Chaos_Eto)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/814 "2021-11-21T15:33:42Z")
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