# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Lfod\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lfod_shi/32/376240_2.png) [@Lfod\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lfod_Shi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1345 "2021-11-25T03:10:53Z")
Diary of Horace Wimp. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1346 "2021-11-25T03:14:49Z")
> [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > Saying you are brave because the other person should have docked up is farcical. Did I wander into a Monty Python rerun? The entire ganker ethos against miners is maintained by a series of myths. The lazy, stupid, AFK, miner who never looks at d-scan, doesn’t tank up…etc, etc. But one has only to look at zKillboard for mining barges ganked to see that most are well tanked but simply cant cope with 15 Catalysts. There’s always some ’ but you should have…’ from gankers and their supporters…by which the ‘blame’ gets shifted to the miner. Sort of akin to a burglar walking out of your front door with his swag and telling you its entirely your own fault you got burgled. Nothing to do with him being a burglar…oh no…he’s just there to ‘help’ you get better security. This level of logic would have Plato rolling in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Hans\_Devin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hans_devin/32/373511_2.png) [@Hans\_Devin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hans_Devin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1347 "2021-11-25T03:26:01Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Sort of akin to a burglar walking out of your front door with his swag and telling you its entirely your own fault you got burgled. Nothing to do with him being a burglar…oh no…he’s just there to ‘help’ you get better security. You win the internet tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Simplify\_Lipton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/simplify_lipton/32/298173_2.png) [@Simplify\_Lipton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Simplify_Lipton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1348 "2021-11-25T03:26:21Z")
Please make ships cheap again ---
**Author:** ![Hans\_Devin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hans_devin/32/373511_2.png) [@Hans\_Devin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hans_Devin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1349 "2021-11-25T03:34:28Z")
Nerfing miners won’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1350 "2021-11-25T06:04:48Z")
> [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > You are not brave when you shoot someone who can’t shoot back. _Saying you are brave_ because the other person should have docked up is farcical. Hello Hans,. My italics, above. Did I really use the word ‘brave’ in the sense you imply? Please do correct me by quoting the relevant passage, and I’ll accept it. > [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > Let me explain this simple concept about words. Words have different meanings and its easy to see the difference in words because they are …wait for it…spelled differently. I have no idea what you’re getting at here. Please explain this ‘simple concept’ so that the ignorant, like myself, can benefit from your teaching. > [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > You want free little mining piñatas all over Eve. Untrue. I want suitable targets in Highsec. They can be Mission-Runners, Miners, Haulers… Why is it only in Highsec that you lot think you shouls be completely safe? > [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > false information and slander. I do not provide either of these. > [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > CCP nerfed miners - you won. Too simplistic, Hans. Again, I have not crowed about any of the changes; I simply note them and do my own calculations. If you have evidence that I have done so, produce it. > [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > Did they nerf catalysts? No. Own it. They didn’t nerf Catalysts this time around. I own it. Gankers also use Atrons, Thrashers, Talos’, Ruptures, Typhoons… _Ganking_ has certainly been nerfed in the past. Can you refute that? > [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > So because a T3 cruiser can take out a catalyst, should the catalyst be nerfed? Because the catalyst can employ your alternatives: Tank; Support; Alertness; Dock-up. But in this game the catalyst gets nerfed. Because we are in the days of Eve cancel culture. For someone who sets out to explain linguistic concepts, you quickly abandon any pretence of coherent and cogent expression. The proposed changes - and they _are_ proposals as far as I can see - were designed not around making you easier to gank, but to give you choices and to make those choices challenging and engaging. Your ‘survivability’ is also affected by a number of unrelated conditions. It’s no fault of mine that you are disappointed. Let’s say that there have been negative responses from 500 different miners/industrialists in these threads (an exaggeration, probably). What percentage of the playerbase is that? Who knows what the _majority_ of players think of it all? Perhaps they’ll just carry on regardless when the changes drop - or leave. Either way, you will not advance your own cause, trashing gankers and ganking, by aligning yourself with that very ‘cancel culture’ you seek to disparage. ---
**Author:** ![DragoFire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragofire/32/257926_2.png) [@DragoFire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DragoFire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1351 "2021-11-25T06:19:59Z")
> [@WindRider9](#): > > Why add waste? You are basically removing more ore from the server, as belts will burn up faster Hmm… I think you like many others have read the related notes and heard something completely different. The waste only effects the added 100% to resources when this get released on the live server. So if not removing current resource amount, and adding the option to mine more for longer on grid, or mine larger yields or faster at bonus resource. So for an hour you roughly mine the same as now, but using new better modules and crystals you do better, and throw Orca or Rorqual command bursts you mine heaps better. So sadly you’ve misconception what the change will be. This could be from reading the original release details and not the updated. And carried misconception from there through all the updated information ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 7:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1352 "2021-11-25T07:51:54Z")
> [@DragoFire](#): > > So for an hour you roughly mine the same as now Or - 2/3rds of what you mined prior to 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 8:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1353 "2021-11-25T08:05:42Z")
> [@WindRider9](#): > > Why add waste? You are basically removing more ore from the server, as belts will burn up faster - the complete opposite of what your update reads. Together with adding waste, the asteroid size is doubled. If you mine with 100% waste there is no difference, but if you mine more efficiently you will get _more_ ore out of a belt. ---
**Author:** ![Kenneth\_Feld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenneth_feld/32/435300_2.png) [@Kenneth\_Feld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenneth_Feld)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1354 "2021-11-25T08:27:03Z")
Thanks for your reply - You are the first person to not like the skill/crystal squish idea - i am sorry to hear that, but based on the overwhelming support I have gotten - I am not terribly concerned As far as yield, EVERY barge or Exhumer got a buff to both unbonused and boosted scenarios Sisi is NOT updated fully, so you can’t rely on those numbers, you have to do the math yourself - or you can look at the charts - if you specify a ship, I can give you details on exactly the before and after yields to help ease your nerves As far as your EHP comments - I’ll let the people who worked on that answer for themselves ---
**Author:** ![DragoFire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragofire/32/257926_2.png) [@DragoFire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DragoFire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1355 "2021-11-25T09:33:40Z")
@Kenneth_Feld ideally there should be a list of what someone will mine for an hour with minimal skill requirements and maximum for each module/mining ship combo. This would show the benefits of skilling up and meta upgrades. T1 Frigate with T1 through to ORE Modules as a bear minimum skilled character, then the same again with higher skill character. Same for the T2 frigates, T1 barges and T2 exhumers. If you know anyone who might have knowledge to do tank for each and also supply the basic mining capabilities still would show players both the mining options and the tanked miner option ---
**Author:** ![Ploing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ploing/32/466885_2.png) [@Ploing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ploing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1356 "2021-11-25T09:49:36Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > …we still have plans for the endurance and the prospect. What will you do to ~~improve~~ **punish** them ? ffy… ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1357 "2021-11-25T10:01:14Z")
> [@Kenneth\_Feld](#): > > As far as yield, EVERY barge or Exhumer got a buff to both unbonused and boosted scenarios For the mining barges (procurer, retriever, covetor), the Strip Miner **Duration** bonus (via the Mining Barge Skill) was cancelled for all three hulls. Here are the numbers copied from OP: Procurer - mining barge skill / level: Strip Miner **Duration** : -2% (old); no bonus (new) _i.e,. loss of 10% cycle time bonus_ - Role bonus: no **cycle time** bonus (old and new) Retriever - mining barge skill / level: Strip Miner **Duration** : -2% (old); no bonus (new) _i.e,. loss of 10% cycle time bonus_ - Role bonus: no **cycle time** bonus (old and new) Covetor - mining barge skill / level: Strip Miner **Duration** : -2% (old); no bonus (new) _i.e., loss of 10% cycle time bonus_ - Role bonus: -25% flat bonus on Strip Miner **Duration** (old); -25% flat bonus on Strip Miner Duration (new) All 3 hulls get a strip miner duration **nerf** of 10%, which is a net reduction of m3/sec of mining i.e. how long it takes to fill the ore hold. It is entirely possible that this is balanced out by the yield per cycle, but the numbers are not presented that way. It would be helpful, if only for my understanding perhaps, if someone could provide **the m3/sec numbers** for the three barges, for simple ore mining, UNBOOSTED, assuming max skills for barges and all their equipment, with as many mining upgrades t2 that go into the low slots as they do currently on TQ, versus comparable new crystals (max skills) with the same equipment on the 3 barges (so no 3rd mining upgrade t2 for the extra low slot on the procurer). Much obliged. Why my focus on duration and not so much on yield ? Time ! The faster I can get the job done, the faster I can go do fun stuff. If your numbers prove that the m3/sec is not affected, fine and thank you for sharing. P.S. could someone please convince the devs that it is important to mention the dimension and units on the axes of their graphs ? ---
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1358 "2021-11-25T11:00:04Z")
Although the duration bonus is going away, there are yield bonuses replacing them. Taking only the skill level bonus changes into account, if you mine 450m3 (base yield from T2 strip miner) in 54 seconds in a mining barge, you’d now be mining 495m3 in 60 seconds. So you’d go from 8.33m3/sec to 8.25m3/sec. However, that doesn’t take into account the increases to yield on the module itself. So with the changes on a T2 strip miner, you’d go from mining 450m3 in 54 seconds to mining 528 in 60, or a change from 8.33m3/sec to 8.8 m3/sec. That’s also not including the mining yield multiplier changing from 1.75 to 1.8 on the T2 mining crystals… So, all in all, you should be mining more, but pulling it in less often. ETA: On a skiff I can currently mine 21.9m3/s (1593m3 x2 every 146 seconds) unboosted, without implants, with T2 mining crystals. With the changes, I should be mining 23.5m3/sec (2115m3 x2 in 180 seconds), with the T2 type A crystal. ---
**Author:** ![ntopios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ntopios/32/253890_2.png) [@ntopios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ntopios)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1359 "2021-11-25T11:16:25Z")
support lol from were? u are a joke and only interested on your in-game wallet .yeah people love this patch like the industry one u where bragging left and right ---
**Author:** ![Arkous\_Kaldar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arkous_kaldar/32/399700_2.png) [@Arkous\_Kaldar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arkous_Kaldar)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1360 "2021-11-25T11:18:03Z")
Come to the forums to see any changes before i come back from a 4 month break and see CCP ruining the game even more. What a surprise! All my accounts will stay unsubbed, CCP as usual has no idea what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![ntopios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ntopios/32/253890_2.png) [@ntopios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ntopios)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1361 "2021-11-25T11:21:46Z")
what are u talking about @Kenneth_Feld is so happy about this patch to and the support he is getting … just look again at the patch and the new features …/… ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1362 "2021-11-25T11:22:32Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > All 3 hulls get a strip miner duration **nerf** of 10%, which is a net reduction of m3/sec of mining i.e. how long it takes to fill the ore hold. It is entirely possible that this is balanced out by the yield per cycle, but the numbers are not presented that way. they want you to be boosted by an Orca / Rorqual with those , as the duration got shifted to the Orca Rorqual: Orca(Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus T1 10% T2 15%) Rorqual(Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus T1 36% T2 40%) Who am i trying to kid here. **Orca** **Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):** 3% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst effect strength and duration (15% Strength) **Rorqual** **Capital Industrial Ships bonuses (per skill level):** 5% bonus to Mining Foreman burst effect strength and duration (25% Strength) Those got removed and placed in the Industrial Core instead , looks like the Rorqual got a massive buff while the orca got a nerf with the T1 and equal with the T2 (meaning if you don’t siege it’s a nerf for both). Porpoise **Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):** 2% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst effect strength and duration (10%) Looks like the Porpoise will be the only one unaffected as it will retain it’s 10% cause it cannot use a CiC right? CCP right? Therefor Orca is useless once again , Porpoise #1 all around for boosting and solo mining and compressing until you move to the Rorqual, Orca will only be used for transport as a “mid tier” between a DST and a Freighter. WoW… Way to kill off a nice ship guys. Also it won’t change your strip miner duration as those Mining Foreman Burst effect strength were already present + your strip miner duration per level. Yep another straight up nerf all across the board. CCP you sneaky devil you. Edit: @Kenneth_Feld You’re Delusional. ---
**Author:** ![ntopios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ntopios/32/253890_2.png) [@ntopios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ntopios)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1363 "2021-11-25T11:26:09Z")
what are u talking about you are the minority the support for this patch is overwhelming. @Kenneth_Feld destroy everything man u got the overwhelming support !!! ---
**Author:** ![Alic\_Kutia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alic_kutia/32/463286_2.png) [@Alic\_Kutia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alic_Kutia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1364 "2021-11-25T11:31:39Z")
its prity clear that they did and they are doing there best to get this whole mining thing out of the hands of people like me that field 30 hulks and silver miner that fields 40 freaking rorqs. just that. make it so hard for anyone person to mass harvest anything, and forcing actual people to mine, in groups… together… You all hate this and its understandable. But this is what the game needs if we really want to se a market where its actually viable to mine in a group fleet in just one or two ships. just think about it for a while. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=66) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=68)