# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1405 "2021-11-25T14:25:41Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > When you jump into that system, don’t warp to the gate, warp to a moon or belt ( not the sun) that is off line between the gates, then warp to your out gate. The different angle will cause you to miss the smartbomb camp. yeah i thought of that after the incident , but then again if they sit on the gate and the range of the smart bomb is 7.5km , shouldnt that still hit me no matter from which angle i come in? ---
**Author:** ![Hans\_Devin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hans_devin/32/373511_2.png) [@Hans\_Devin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hans_Devin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1406 "2021-11-25T14:26:34Z")
You lost your cognitive grip on the discussion. Or, as some might say, over your head. ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1407 "2021-11-25T14:31:46Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > From what I know of it, The Sims is not a game I would play, for it doesn’t permit me to strike other players over the head, or to scam them. Should I install the game, play it, and try to convince the designers that they should incorporate my wishes into the next patch? It is a good point, and i agree, but I’m more pointing about the griefing part, and their lack of concern about it on new players. Also the lack of attitude from ccp against that . ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1408 "2021-11-25T14:32:52Z")
…Which is why I would welcome your further input, Hans. Give it to me in bitesize chunks so that we can _all_ drink at the fountain of your undoubted wisdom. I’m waiting… ---
**Author:** ![TiberianSun371AlexW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiberiansun371alexw/32/510819_2.png) [@TiberianSun371AlexW](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TiberianSun371AlexW)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1409 "2021-11-25T14:40:29Z")
An AFK, that’s someone in the food chain even I can take out. ---
**Author:** ![Hans\_Devin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hans_devin/32/373511_2.png) [@Hans\_Devin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hans_Devin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1410 "2021-11-25T14:43:39Z")
We both got our say. You obviously are not satisfied and if I were you, I might feel the same. Your original points in my opinion were farcical ; I treated them that way and so did others. Now you want to reset the table and argue some more. That time has past, I’m on to other things. Happy Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Baird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesley_baird/32/455827_2.png) [@Wesley\_Baird](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesley_Baird)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1411 "2021-11-25T15:00:55Z")
With the new crystals, which one is used for high-sec moons, low and null? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1412 "2021-11-25T15:04:18Z")
> [@Hans\_Devin](#): > > Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you. I wish you the same! ---
**Author:** ![TiberianSun371AlexW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiberiansun371alexw/32/510819_2.png) [@TiberianSun371AlexW](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TiberianSun371AlexW)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1413 "2021-11-25T15:08:38Z")
High sec moons use ubiquitous moon ore crystals, the others will depend on the exact rock and each moon makes multiple ores so you’ll see ubiquitous moon ore crystals, common moon ore crystals, rare moon ore crystals, and… pretty much the same as it is now. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1414 "2021-11-25T15:32:06Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > if you think a high sec rock in a belt is going to take 35mins for one drone to mine then we live in different realities. Maybe in a porpoise with literally no drone skills. We obviously do. The math and screen shots were done in the thread i linked. Maybe you _think_ it isn’t 30 odd minutes but your perception of time is affected because you are doing other things. ---
**Author:** ![Omah\_Name](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omah_name/32/277260_2.png) [@Omah\_Name](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omah_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1415 "2021-11-25T15:55:02Z")
I’m sorry, but hard no. CCP: - noob with T1 gear has a gross yield (subtracted from the rock) of 200 units/cycle - vet with T2 gear has a gross yield (subtracted from the rock) of 134 units/cycle Me: - noob with T1 gear has a gross yield (s. f. t. r.) of 100 units/cycle - vet with T2 gear has a gross yield (s. f. t. r.) of 100 units/cycle So, in the CCP take, the noob burns through almost twice as much ore as the vet does, in the same amount of time. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about valuable ore or whatever - if noob and vet compete against the same resource, in the CCP take the noob burns through the rock faster than the vet does. I can’t find the original description in the initial “From Extraction to Production” post (I can see it was modified 4 times, so I guess it was truncated when this thread got published). Time is finite for both noob and vet. If in the same amount of time a noob burns twice the ore a vet does **from the rock itself** , the 2 are competing and the noob is ruining it for both of them. If the waste would be computed from the hold, things would be reasonable. Why? I’m going back to the _“The mining gear should act precisely like anti-asteroid weaponry”_. The weapons and ammo we play with don’t guarantee that the damage indicated is **applied** at that nominal level. They mention the _gross_ damage, _before_ resistances and tracking and everything else. Why would the mining gear show us the net yield? They shouldn’t. They should say how much ore they can process per cycle. _ **How much of that ore you keep** _ should be the equivalent of _applied damage_. So… scour through 100 units of ore, but your gear is too crude and you only get 50% of it. Use better gear and get more experience with the quirks of your messed up hardware _or_ know not to burn the rock, but smash it first and you go from 50% to 84% etc. Is it clear now? We’re talking about net drain from the asteroid. At double the total ore amount, the noob gets just as much ore as they do now, in X cycles. The vets will be denied access to that extra 100% ore amount in the belts/moon chunks if a noob mines next to them, with the waste mechanic applied as per the CCP suggestion. In my suggestion, the vets would get about the same amount of ore as now in X cycles, but there would still be ore left in the area even if a noob mines there. So, instead of 2x ore for the vet, it’s 1.3x perhaps (assuming faction gear etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Omah\_Name](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omah_name/32/277260_2.png) [@Omah\_Name](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omah_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1416 "2021-11-25T15:57:26Z")
Also, [@CSM](https://forums.eveonline.com/groups/csm) : CCP should add a module that sucks in all that asteroid mist and yields some amount of ore. Lower than a mining module, but friendly. Something like a gas aspirator, but for fine rock dust. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1417 "2021-11-25T16:02:42Z")
Nope. I think you have me confused with someone who doesnt pay attention. If i take the orca out on a good day the first drone needs recyling when i have around 18-20k m3 in my hold. on a bad day i dont get to 10km3 in my hold before the first drone needs reassigned. so thats what between 3 and 4k per rock which is fairly common for high sec asteroid size. So if thats suppossed to take me 35minutes. each drone is pull 2m3 per second? well i mine at double that speed with max skills and augmented mining drones. your example was a 7k rock. my drones mine at just over 25m3 per second (all 5 together) so each drone pulling 5m3 per second. thats 23 minutes plus a little travel time. But i move my orca right next to the rocks im mining so that negligable. And a 7k rock is an anomaly at the moment. And then we have the staggering effect. its not like you are always sending 5 drones to 5 different rocks of the same size. the rocks are different sizes and therefore finish at different times. so after the first cycle which might give you a nice 25 minutes where you dont have to do anything. but then each drone ends up on its own pattern starting a new rock after the last finishes. drone 1 finishes…….re start on new rock……….2mins later drone 2 finishes…………4 minutes later drone 3 finishes……………6 minutes later drone 4 finishes……………30seconds later drone 5 finishes…….3 minutes later drone 2 finishes…….30 seconds later drone 1 finishes……….5 minutes later drone 3 finishes…………and so on. if you think you are getting 35 minutes anywhere within that random pattern you are crazy. While one rock may take that long if you are lucky not every rock is and the patterns are depending by the smaller rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1418 "2021-11-25T16:04:56Z")
> [@Omah\_Name](#): > > Me: > > - noob with T1 gear has a gross yield (s. f. t. r.) of 100 units/cycle > - vet with T2 gear has a gross yield (s. f. t. r.) of 100 units/cycle How would there be a difference between type A (high efficiency, lower yield) and type B (lower efficiency, higher yield) in your example? You seem fixated on everyone mining a fixed amount of ore from an asteroid, which makes that choice between high yield versus high efficiency impossible, because higher efficiency is directly tied to higher yield, instead of decoupled like in CCP’s idea. And if you let loose the fixed amount extracted from the asteroid per time, your idea is the same as CCP’s idea, except in different words. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1419 "2021-11-25T16:11:18Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > so thats what between 3 and 4k per rock which is fairly common for high sec asteroid size. Literally a screenshot… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/a/0/6a051fe588ffbfabb4498de7384d85af6ad13c3e.jpeg) > [@The Orca](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/421): > > Allow me, first belt i warped to 14 hours after down time [image] As i said, you’re guestimating how long it takes you to pop a rock. But your perception of time is not accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Decimus\_King](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/decimus_king/32/481632_2.png) [@Decimus\_King](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Decimus_King)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1420 "2021-11-25T16:11:26Z")
I just went on the test server and the role bonusses you said got removed are still there? If they remove those bonusses, mining is in a world of pain edit: probably because it is not on the test server yet and they sneaked in that little change… F U C K ---
**Author:** ![Jonesy\_Ripley](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonesy_ripley/32/294983_2.png) [@Jonesy\_Ripley](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonesy_Ripley)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1421 "2021-11-25T16:20:21Z")
Is it already known if and when the new bp’s will be released? ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1422 "2021-11-25T16:21:14Z")
id kill for rocks like that. But it doesnt really change the fact that the 35minutes is misnomer. 5 drones. five different drone cycles. how do make a combination that allwos you to consistently AFK for 30minutes. even just 2 drones to make the math simple. drone 1 mines the big veldspar rock at 11 835 and drone 2 mines the one thats 9985. drone 2 finishes first and moves onto the 11380 rock. well that leaves drone 1 with an effective rock size of 1850 before it needs to be reassigned. So right away the staggering of 2 drones means afk potential is reduced down. factor in another 3 and you get to a cycle where you are lucky to get 10 minutes……even 5 between assisgning a drone to a rock. Even if i accept you 35minute for one drone…………the 35minutes doesnt exist when between starting and stopping potentially 4 other drones need to be reassigned. ---
**Author:** ![Decimus\_King](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/decimus_king/32/481632_2.png) [@Decimus\_King](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Decimus_King)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1423 "2021-11-25T16:23:11Z")
@CCP_Psych please do not remove the role bonus to foreman bursts. I’d rather even lose mining drones all together over losing that role bonus. It is also very sneaky to introduce that change in this way. ---
**Author:** ![Omah\_Name](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omah_name/32/277260_2.png) [@Omah\_Name](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omah_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1424 "2021-11-25T16:25:13Z")
You’re surely aware you seem fixated on my presumably fixated idea, yes? > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > How would there be a difference between type A (high efficiency, lower yield) and type B (lower efficiency, higher yield) in your example? Mine 200 units of ore. Noob gets maybe 70. With proper crystals, they get to 100. So we’re at that 50% waste CCP suggested. Similar for the vet, from say 110 to 160 and we’re back at 80-84%. Adjust the base amounts, then the crystals for mining would more or less act like energy weapon crystals, adjusting _personal_ performance/waste (thus, the net yield). I’m not fixated on something. Should vets get more ore in the same amount of time as a noob would get? ABSOLUTELY - that’s why we invest in skilling and in better gear. Should noobs burn through more ore than a vet in the same amount of time? Absolutely not!, it’s senseless if they did. As such, go with the waste as a concept, but make it not from the asteroid, make it from the ore hold. Or, parallel to reality, from the mining module to the ore, not from the asteroid to the mining module. Otherwise I assume you accept the idea that me, in a Merlin, should be able to dish out a higher base damage per cycle as compared to you (you flying a Worm), when fighting the same NPC. Because it’d actually show to me like I’m dealing 100 damage, when it’s taking 200 health points from the NPC. (I’m not too fond of this parallel, but the absurdity of it should be striking enough to understand why I’m being vehement about this) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=69) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=71)