# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Kenneth\_Feld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenneth_feld/32/435300_2.png) [@Kenneth\_Feld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenneth_Feld)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1631 "2021-11-26T16:33:35Z")
> I do not know how to put the question clearer than this: _with the same fit, how much does a covetor pull in **m3/sec** , without boosts, with maxed skills, a reference fit, before and after the changes that ccp plans_ . I don’t have time right now to do the math - ill get to it on Sunday - but no boosts you can figure on roughly a 3-4% yield increase with T2/T2 fit > It does not. At most it means less clicking per hour - which is irrelevant - but never less clicking per moon chunk, per asteroid belt, per ore hold. It’s the _per time unit_ you seem to have an issue with. If you ever mined high end with a Hulk you will know the ore bay only holds a few cycles - so every other cycle you have to drasg from ore hold to a jetcan/orca/rorqual etc - trading duration bonus for yield means the cycle time is slower, hence the longer duration between chucnks appearing in ore hold is longer, therefore you have to click and drag less - therefore less clicks - I don’t know how to say this any other way. It will be the same on any barge - but each barge has its own times you have to do something with the ore. > So let’s not get distracted by what is “good” in our respective opinions. I ask for a _quantifier_ , not a _qualifier_ . I will, for my own play style, determine if it is any _good_ or not. In the case of exhumers - they traded a duration bonus of 10% (11.11% yield) for a 25% yield bonus - I don’t care what planet you are from that is a good trade - period ---
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1632 "2021-11-26T16:41:07Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > I do not know how to put the question clearer than this: _with the same fit, how much does a covetor pull in **m3/sec** , without boosts, with maxed skills, a reference fit, before and after the changes that ccp plans_. > > But like I wrote earlier, if you do not have the numbers handy or are not in a position to calculate, that’s all fine, Kenneth. Just say so. I’m confused. I gave you the numbers for a skiff yesterday, and you could clearly see an increase. The numbers are even better for a covetor. Why are you still on about this? If it was a huge concern to you, you could spend the time running the calculations yourself. Or even better yet, jump on singularity and simulate the fit yourself. ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1633 "2021-11-26T17:06:00Z")
still laughing at p1 coming from a rock without having to be processed from raw PI. The message here should be clear by now. CCP throws out totally outrageous plans that everyone screams about until they scale it back to merely dumb plans that we grudgingly accept. psychology at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1634 "2021-11-26T17:13:13Z")
Have you unsubbed yet? Are you doing your part to make CCP know you’re tired of their crap? ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1635 "2021-11-26T17:19:08Z")
problem solved. just put alloys back so that combat pilots can generate minerals ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_silver/32/298364_2.png) [@Cain\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Silver)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1636 "2021-11-26T17:49:11Z")
So let me get this straight, You mine moon goo and magically get P1 material? P1 material that normally has to be made on a planet now on TQ. Well since you are in a giving mood just give us the rest of the PI chain. P1 through P4 on R8 through R64 moons. ---
**Author:** ![Ulitharid\_Alhoon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulitharid_alhoon/32/387855_2.png) [@Ulitharid\_Alhoon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ulitharid_Alhoon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1637 "2021-11-26T17:50:06Z")
I can’t unsub mine are all gifts… but I don’t plan on getting them in the future ---
**Author:** ![J\_Ten\_Ertoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/j_ten_ertoni/32/253207_2.png) [@J\_Ten\_Ertoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/J_Ten_Ertoni)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1638 "2021-11-26T18:14:39Z")
> [@CCP\_Psych](#): > > We are also aiming to publish the Winter Update Blog next week which will give you all a further insight into what is going on for EVE. Is this still aimed for this week? There’s not been any mention of it being delayed and there’s not a lot of week left. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1639 "2021-11-26T18:17:25Z")
> [@Nyrak](#): > > Didn’t you get the memo? Got it, understood it, burned it. They may not care, but some of us who pay their wages do. > [@Zumbas\_Egdald](#): > > Will google it! 😃 [Twitch](http://www.twitch.com/RampageInc) I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1640 "2021-11-26T18:27:04Z")
> [@Kenneth\_Feld](#): > > In the case of exhumers - they traded a duration bonus of 10% (11.11% yield) for a 25% yield bonus NO, they didn’t. You haven’t actually looked at the duration and yield bonuses on Exhumers, have you. Exhumers across the board lost 20% duration bonus and yield bonuses are different for each Exhumer. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Spartan796](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_spartan796/32/296654_2.png) [@Dark\_Spartan796](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Spartan796)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1641 "2021-11-26T19:13:08Z")
I strongly urge you to walk back this decision. This is not a solution to the problem, and it will cause further problems down the road. R4 moon goo is a prime source of these basic minerals, and they represent the livelihoods of many highsec industrialists. Additionally, it doesn’t make sense from a logic standpoint why you would find _processed_ planetary commodities on a barren, airless moon. Why would you be able to find bacteria - _living, breathing life_ - on a chunk of rock that has been violently carved out of the moon by a giant laser, then tractored into orbit? Why oxygen or water for that matter? It’s nonsense. All this will do is flood the market with P1 commodities, making it not worth the effort to even bother with planets. The passive aspect of PI is why I’m able to dabble in ship construction at all, because I live a very busy life and I only get a handful of hours every week to play, and I don’t necessarily want to spend them mining when I can just make a run on my planets every week. It’s not perfect, and it definitely runs into issues when you have one person trying to scale it up on numerous alts, but it’s a passive form of income that exists in a game where you can already passively make progress because your skills train when you’re offline. The absence of minerals from R4 will cause spikes in their prices, resulting in further increases in final ship prices. People will be less inclined to take big things out in search of content if they’re worried about not being able to replace them afterward. We were in a good spot when battleships ran for 75-150M - we never thought twice about yeeting them away because we knew we could replace them. Cheap ships are a good thing - with high hull turnover, they’ll always be in demand. If they’re prohibitive to use, they won’t get used, and this is bad news for content in the long run. I know many of the industry changes in the past were to increase the manufacturing costs for capital ships, but this also had the side effect of impacting subcapitals. It seems necessary (and sensical) for these two classes of ships to have different manufacturing processes, primarily in the form of the materials that go into them. There must be a separation between these two aspects of industry, that way changes can be made to one without detrimentally impacting the other in unintended ways. PI commodities of any kind in moon goo is not the correct solution to this problem. Please reconsider this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1642 "2021-11-26T19:35:40Z")
> [@Kenneth\_Feld](#): > > In the case of exhumers - they traded a duration bonus of 10% (11.11% yield) for a 25% yield bonus - I don’t care what planet you are from that is a good trade - period It would be a good trade if it results in at least similar or even improved mining speed (in m3/sec), and that’s exactly what I would like to find out. Then I will add my own qualifier, as I wrote before. > [@Kenneth\_Feld](#): > > If you ever mined high end with a Hulk you will know the ore bay only holds a few cycles _CORRECT_ > trading duration bonus for yield means the cycle time is slower _GETTING CLOSER_ > hence the longer duration between chucnks appearing in ore hold _STILL CORRECT_ > therefore you have to click and drag less - therefore less clicks - _WRONG_ You keep referring to hulks, but it’s pretty much the same situation on covetors, and in the lowest of ends, hisec with small asteroids. I don’t know how it is on your planet, but I like to have that ore hold filled up asap. Mining Bonus changes do NOT affect HOW MANY clicks a total job will require i.e., the total number of clicks, on any planet. They can only affect how fast you will have to click again. An automotive example would be: what do you prefer to travel this distance, a fast car or a slow car. If you love relaxing in cars you’d probably prefer the slower one. If you want FEWER clicks, Kenneth, ask ccp for an ore hold increase… ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1643 "2021-11-26T19:43:41Z")
> [@makrish1](#): > > I gave you a rough and incomplete approximation ~~the numbers~~ for a skiff for which I thanked you. > [@makrish1](#): > > jump on singularity and simulate the fit yourself. if Sisi gets updated, sure. I took it for granted that the authority on industry in the csm would have those numbers handy - apparently that’s not the case. And I sure as hell didn’t expect this to become a lecture on the meaning and significance of a time derivative. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1644 "2021-11-26T19:47:15Z")
> [@Rowley\_Birkin](#): > > I honestly don’t know enough about mining and industry in Lowsec and Nullsec to even speculate about the effects of no R4 moons at all those regions. Is this a job application? If so, better pack your bags. You’re moving to Iceland. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1645 "2021-11-26T19:59:17Z")
> [@Jinsura](#): > > can you pls tell me, why i still should produce anything? and while at it, please explain how it is that P1s, which are artificially produced/purified in factories, exist on moons? What logic is there to that? ---
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1646 "2021-11-26T20:23:25Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > if Sisi gets updated, sure. I took it for granted that the authority on industry in the csm would have those numbers handy - apparently that’s not the case. And I sure as hell didn’t expect this to become a lecture on the meaning and significance of a time derivative. Singularity has been updated, I was doing some mining yesterday evening comparing a hulk vs a mackinaw. They’re both in good places, I think I’ll be upgrading from my skiff. ---
**Author:** ![Ulitharid\_Alhoon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulitharid_alhoon/32/387855_2.png) [@Ulitharid\_Alhoon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ulitharid_Alhoon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1647 "2021-11-26T20:24:02Z")
reality aside… the only reason my corp went back to moon mining because they return the minerals back The PI they are throwing in will barely help battleship production because it still has the reactions plug. With the value of that PI dropping there’s even less incentive to mine it until the moon goo goes up Coming soon 4 athanors for sale Jita riot PROVES that the CSM are clueless what many want Orca siege module might be fine in null-sec where they can wall themself in but not where I play in high-sec. It just puts a HUGE target on mine I didn’t bother me about waste. It bothered me that it favored null-sec (No right minded pilot would add that kind of value in high or low security space) Mining crystal changes are fair even though C-types can be abused My stupid thought of the week: You really want to shake up the status quo make asteroids and ice movable (If a frigate can tractor a titan wreck… my orca can certainly tractor a rock). what you should really fix… Any tree in production need no mining ability… Any battleship need minor investment in smaller ships. but to mine with an orca will need nearly a major investment in production… why the disconnect on one side and not the other? sorry about my rambling… here you go… 🥔 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1648 "2021-11-26T20:39:58Z")
Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it. I’ll test the three barges instead. I _can_ fly the exhumers, but I remember hulkageddon 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lfod\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lfod_shi/32/376240_2.png) [@Lfod\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lfod_Shi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1649 "2021-11-26T20:46:09Z")
Um… a question for you guys who are getting ganked while mining. _Where_ are you mining? ---
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1650 "2021-11-26T20:46:53Z")
Just so you know, the exhumers are worth flying in highsec now. Try simulating a few fits with a DCU + compact shield hardeners + compact LSE (if you have shield upgrades 5). Also, I should note that the shield resist bonus isn’t happening in singularity, so the tank isn’t as good as it should be. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=80) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=82)