# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Lfod\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lfod_shi/32/376240_2.png) [@Lfod\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lfod_Shi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1691 "2021-11-27T12:45:32Z")
Ah… a 4th option! ---
**Author:** ![James\_Allgood](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_allgood/32/296170_2.png) [@James\_Allgood](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Allgood)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1692 "2021-11-27T13:03:26Z")
Hi there, sorry if this has already been asked but what’ll hapen to current mining crystals BPOs e.g. veldspar mining crystal I BPO? ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1693 "2021-11-27T13:05:50Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I mainly see positives for Orcas as mining support ship in this change. The only negative change for Orcas is let me finish your sentence there… -Out of a fleet I become useless. Remember exhumer skilling is different than Orca skilling , we talking MONTHS of skill training , also the difference in prices. This is not something you take lightly. -Fuel consomption. If i have to boost my fleet so they can get faster cycle & range, what do i have in returns for my services ? Oh yes a nice price tag of 15mil in fuel gee thanks. -CODE shows up unannounced in your system. Hey guys wait up don’t leave me hey yo where are you going … oh sh!T ;-; -Boost it’s the same as it was before btw except now it’s paywalled behind the CiC T2 anything lesser than T2 is a straight up nerf. But yeah you are right on the: > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > solo mining ships will now be encouraged to pick up a barge or exhumer instead. and Boost will remain/be the Porpoise as it doesn’t requires to be locked in place , doesn’t need to consume fuel to operate , can leave grid on a moment notice. ---
**Author:** ![Stratoshere](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stratoshere/32/256475_2.png) [@Stratoshere](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stratoshere)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1694 "2021-11-27T13:15:13Z")
But now the Porpoise mines half the rate of an Orca when you are solo mining. …and the exhumers have all lost tank. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1695 "2021-11-27T13:19:01Z")
“it would be better for me if I was immune to concord and I could oneshot everyone, and the wrecks would always drop 100%. Because it’s better for me that would means it’s better for the game, the fact that it negatively affects others and the economy is unimportant. CCP please make this happen or I will unsub my 57 accounts”. Like so? ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1696 "2021-11-27T13:19:37Z")
> [@Stratoshere](#): > > But now the Porpoise mines half the rate of an Orca No… don’t base yourself on SiSi it’s not correctly represented there. But seeing what has been posted by @CCP_Psych on the forum it’s actually the Porpoise mining more than the Orca now if the Orca is NOT using the CiC T2. Porpoise = 50% from ICS skill + the 50% from role bonus Orca = 50% from ICS skill + 0% role bonus: + either CiC T1 25% or CiC T2 75% yeah… this is just bonkers. 25 times the price gents and this is what you get. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1697 "2021-11-27T13:21:35Z")
> [@Stratoshere](#): > > But now the Porpoise mines half the rate of an Orca when you are solo mining. …and the exhumers have all lost tank. The exhumers have TWICE the tank of a battleship after the update, as was already highlighted days ago: > [@Orlonchine](#): > > ## Holy moly, the newly proposed Mackinaw looks awesome. Anyone else getting similar numbers? > > Mackinaw now has Skiff-tier EHP. Solobros should love this, not only will you be mining faster, but the huge cargohold makes you have to warp to station less, so your yield will get even higher. In 0.8 systems it’ll take 17 catalysts to gank, 21 catalysts to gank you if an Orca is using shield bursts. The current mackinaws in 0.8 are killed by 6, and 7 catalysts if using Orca shield buffs, (5 if they dont tank properly) > > ![New Mackinaw](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/b/4/ab4ca5705cf5500aaa839b89c42fbcc225da063a.png) ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1698 "2021-11-27T13:22:19Z")
This isn’t entirely true. 2 of the 3 Exhumers are getting near a free Large Shield Extender II in HP buff, if I’ve read the numbers at the OP correctly. Is it enough? No. Is it the correct way to deal with the problem, just keep messing with HP and resist values and hope they find a magic bullet? No. Is the fundamental design flawed? Absolutely. But, it’s not an accurate portrayal that they’re losing all tank. ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1699 "2021-11-27T13:25:32Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > the fact that it negatively affects others and the economy is unimportant. CCP please make this happen or I will unsub my 57 accounts”. I mean… if the game becomes so bad that the player base decides to do this. Then yes without people subbing the game is dead. EvE isn’t a game with a player base in the millions or hundreds of thousands either… granted there’s WHALES that supports the game, but even them must get fed up by their bullsh!t sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1700 "2021-11-27T13:31:37Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > “it would be better for me if I was immune to concord and I could oneshot everyone, and the wrecks would always drop 100%. Because it’s better for me that would means it’s better for the game, the fact that it negatively affects others and the economy is unimportant. CCP please make this happen or I will unsub my 57 accounts”. > > Like so? They aren’t asking anywhere near as much. The miners in particular, are still the lowly proletariat of Eve, even before the updates they now protest. It’s about a few more peanuts. Even so, that strawman position of yours too, would still have much validity. They should just un-sub in that case. Your demands aren’t reasonably feasible in an MMO such as this, so leaving for better pastures, would be the inevitable outcome there… but over here, the current scenario could develop in many ways. Probably a train wreck, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Stratoshere](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stratoshere/32/256475_2.png) [@Stratoshere](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stratoshere)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1701 "2021-11-27T13:34:37Z")
Your talking of tank increases with fleet mining with an orca… Lot of these now wont be used as prize sitting duck if fitted with CIC Removing mid slots means the tank goes down, and the CPU isnt good enough to fit a Med shield extender currently on SISI ---
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1702 "2021-11-27T13:45:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > So they’ll have to bring… 2 more catalysts, and spend another 6 million to kill your 350M ISK Hulk? Yeah, that’ll stop 'em. It’s almost like no one brings four catalysts to kill skiffs right now… Oh wait, they don’t? Even if there are no other targets? It’s almost like you don’t know how easy it is to fit and get one character organised instead of four. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1703 "2021-11-27T13:50:39Z")
> [@Stratoshere](#): > > Your talking of tank increases with fleet mining with an orca… Lot of these now wont be used as prize sitting duck if fitted with CIC > > Removing mid slots means the tank goes down, and the CPU isnt good enough to fit a Med shield extender currently on SISI With the data that was provided in the top post, you can easily fit shield upgrades. Shield tank doesn’t have to go down due to lower numbers of mid slots. In this case, additional lows were added, so you can fit engineering updates into the lows to provide better fitting constraints, and with the better constraints, fit fancier items into the mids. I’ve done it myself here, Skiff with two large shield extenders for 163k ehp with or 148k without orca buff: > [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > > [@Vasistha\_Idama](#): > > > > If mackinaw is do tanky, how much tank would have skiff after patch? Should be even more tanky to be considerable. > > With kitchensink items and Orca unimplanted shield extention command, I think about 163k ehp is the highest it can go > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/1/a/e1af25abd780e3cfaaed07e788f1b11c33fce986.png) ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1704 "2021-11-27T13:51:46Z")
Not sure this logic holds up. The groups that do the ganking… they’re more than organized enough getting 2 or 10 characters sorted out in no time flat isn’t a concern for them. Unsure if you’ve ever had a hand in organizing/logistics for a corporation, but the dudebros that do that work… yeah, a lot of them are very, very good at putting systems in place that don’t care if you’re processing 1 pilot or 200, they can handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1705 "2021-11-27T13:56:59Z")
> [@Jumpdrive](#): > > Your demands aren’t reasonably feasible in an MMO such as this Like the demands of the afk, zero effort grind bears who just want to increase their wallets without interactions with others and who want their safety and risk taken care of by CCP and without personal effort, in this competitive PVP sandbox? As a side note: it doesn’t matter how much you can mine because in the end you get paid for your time and effort invested. If everyone mines less then supply goes down while demand stays the same meaning the price of minerals goes up and nothing changes income wise. The only ones negatively affected are the super AFKers and the folks running a zillion alt accounts, whereas the people who benefit from this are newbies and the normal miners who have meaningful interactions with other industrialists and who don’t go full autism with their setup. ---
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1706 "2021-11-27T14:05:50Z")
> [@Kenrailae](#): > > Not sure this logic holds up. The groups that do the ganking… they’re more than organized enough getting 2 or 10 characters sorted out in no time flat isn’t a concern for them. > > Unsure if you’ve ever had a hand in organizing/logistics for a corporation, but the dudebros that do that work… yeah, a lot of them are very, very good at putting systems in place that don’t care if you’re processing 1 pilot or 200, they can handle it. I am _very_ aware, but 90% of the miner gankers out there use either one or two characters. They don’t have gank fleets like the people who gatecamp Odin or Uedama. Even then, the gank fleets go after the profitable targets rather than a DST carrying 50mil worth of goods. Likewise, who would bother regularly hauling 4-5 catalysts to blow up a single hulk for no profit? You’re losing about 75mil isk and not getting anything other than tears back. Do that three times a day and you’ve lost over 200mil. You literally cannot do it forever. So, you could spend 800mil on bombers blowing up a freighter that drops 2bil in loot, or you could spend 800mil blowing up 12 hulks and not turning a profit. The groups that get organised do the former, instead of even blowing up orcas in belts. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1707 "2021-11-27T14:06:20Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Like the demands of the afk, zero effort grind bears who just want to increase their wallets without interactions with others and who want their safety and risk taken care of by CCP and without personal effort, in this competitive PVP sandbox? It’s not anywhere as bad as that for most of them. And even if it were, it’s not a problem for the game. If anything, the miners indirectly make stuff cheaper for everyone else, only at their very own expense, not ours. They make entertainment for code as well. More prosperity would be a win for many players. I reckon CCP could just have nerfed Rorquals to Exhumer output levels a long time ago and call it day. Wouldn’t have been as entertaining, but it would’ve been so easy. ---
**Author:** ![Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tsumi_tzestu/32/289769_2.png) [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tsumi_Tzestu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1708 "2021-11-27T14:11:03Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Like the demands of the afk, zero effort grind bears who just want to increase their wallets without interactions with others and who want their safety and risk taken care of by CCP and without personal effort, I did not know that increasing the wallet when you’re by yourself and trying to be safe by avoiding conflicts was something that’s frown upon. Very sorry if that offends you. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > in this competitive PVP sandbox? This is purely suggestive, not everyone joins EvE with PvP in mind and seeks out a thrilling PvP experience. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1709 "2021-11-27T14:11:56Z")
> [@makrish1](#): > > Even then, the gank fleets go after the profitable targets rather than a DST carrying 50mil worth of goods. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the reasons people gank. There is a profit motive for some groups, or some ops for some groups, but there are other motives, too. Either way, I’m not willing to turn this into a ‘but ganking’ conversation when the real conversation is about CCP’s BS treatment of industrial ships from the get go. You have fun now. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1710 "2021-11-27T14:15:06Z")
You don’t think that the rampant resource and isk gathering resulting in fleets with 100s of supers and where losing half of them was inconsequential because it’s “easily replaced” due to enormous stockpiles, was an issue? You don’t think seeing a sea of afk miners in high sec, be it in their solo Orca or with 5+ mining alts all with dumb names who either are or might as well have been bots, is an issue? How do you think a newbie looks at this when his venture enters a belt for the first time and there’s 10 people there, none who talk, all with dumb names and they all move in uncanny unison like robots? Do you think that’s an inviting view for a newbie, or anyone? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=83) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=85)