# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 93
**Author:** ![makrish1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makrish1/32/296153_2.png) [@makrish1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/makrish1)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1886 "2021-11-28T12:43:29Z")
> [@Cara\_Lube](#): > > the problem aint having your members pre locked but having 3 RR equiped with 5-6 mandatory highslots not beeing RR´s while having a total of 6 highs. not to mention the lack of fitting room. If they bring 6 catalysts you only need to put reps on one miner. Not all six. At the moment it can be 2x mining boost, 2x shield boost, 2x RR. With the CiC, it can be 2x mining, 2x shield, CiC, 1x RR. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1887 "2021-11-28T12:53:41Z")
> [@Kenrailae](#): > > Feels a hair squishy to me. If it works it works, ofc, but that’s where I’d run into a hang up, wanting to put at least a DCU and bulkheads on. Granted, I’d also just compensate by downgrading to a medium RR or two and bringing a posprey along. The way to survive a gank isn’t having high ehp, because that just asks for more battlecruisers to be brought on the grid. It’s getting out quickly. The posted orca takes 40 seconds to align and lacks a prop mod to improve that, which means gankers don’t need to hurry at all if they want to go for the whale. But if they want to go for the barges instead, tank on the orca is irrelevant. What seems stupid to me though is the cargo expanders. Unless they affect the ore hold and/or fleet hangar, I don’t see they could provide an advantage at all. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1888 "2021-11-28T13:10:34Z")
That’s one school of thought, yes. But it’s not the only one. Daichi could web himself into warp, negating most the need for an MWD. I prefer the MWD method myself, but I also go triple transversal bulkhead II+bulkheads+dcu. The shields are nice, but I hull tank my orca if I’m putting it in a belt and bring along other ships to do some of the jobs I’m losing out on, like an occator to shuttle to and from station, a vulture for shield links, and a scimi for reps. Daichi is an intelligent dude and one of the handful of people on this forum I’ve found is generally well informed across many, many different subjects. I don’t give out that praise often because I’m a bit of a forum warrior myself, from time to time. I’m going to assume he’s factored in getting out of a belt in a hurry because he tends to makes well reasoned points every time I see him posting somewhere. I also haven’t had my alt army logged in in quite some time because I unsubbed last year, so please keep that in mind while considering my perspective. The EHP school of thought doesn’t address the potential danger the same way as the get out of dodge school. It more goes along the lines of ‘well, okay, yeah, you might bring 20 talos’s to gank me, and if you do, kudos to you. You’re gonna lose money, but hey, you made your point and you worked for it.’ Otherwise, it’s just not worth trying to gank a max tank orca that isn’t bling fitted or full to the brim of valuable compressed ores. There are a few other ways to fit an orca which can be viable as well, depending on your end goal, as well as a couple other schools of thought in how to survive an attack. I’m going to use attack, and not gank, because I’m tired of the miners vs gankers narrow-minded argument. - This is the way I want Eve to remain. I want to have 8 different fits for my domi that can all be viable depending on the job, and not have somebody tell me I’m doing it wrong because I tried something different instead of the 1 and only fit/job a ship is ideal for. I want to be able to use my Orca as super tank freighter, MWD+cloak warping off gates, or else an enormous EHP brick setting in the middle of a belt, compressing and providing mining links while my vulture does shield. And several other fits, too. Heck, if someone wants to do a full drone efficiency fit, I want them to be able to do that, too. But what it feels like CCP is doing is continuing a steady march of shoehorning ships into 1 set role and that’s all they can really do with any efficacy. I do not want that. Nor do most people, I think. If they want to give the Orca the job of repairing(like the rorqual), okay, fine, but there’s going to come a point where they have too many jobs on the one hull, and I think the Orca is very near that already. ---
**Author:** ![Anneloreke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anneloreke/32/297328_2.png) [@Anneloreke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anneloreke)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1889 "2021-11-28T13:27:25Z")
Those changes and tweaks are too complicated for me. I simply won’t mine and manufacture. Planet Interaction looks interesting, maybe I’ll give it a go. I’ll determine if paying for Omega just for that is worth it since the only ships I’d like to fly are Destroyers. Maybe I’ll get into an Omega Destroyer… maybe. The game is disappointing but I may find something that interests me, just may. ---
**Author:** ![Nyrak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nyrak/32/296189_2.png) [@Nyrak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nyrak)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1890 "2021-11-28T13:45:12Z")
After years of hearing how the worst thing to introduce to a new player is mining in any form, as I read through this thread, “these changes will allow new bros to mine”. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1891 "2021-11-28T14:15:53Z")
You don’t get gank squads big enough to threaten an orca where i am. Check my corp loss board for exactly how many orcas ive lost to ganks. And the expanders push the main hold to near 100km3 to keep the orca in the belt for longer. What else would you fit when neither tank nor agility is necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Hong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenny_hong/32/411360_2.png) [@Jenny\_Hong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenny_Hong)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1892 "2021-11-28T15:59:45Z")
> [@Tsumi\_Tzestu](#): > > Oh that is so not true, I made a new sim boy with a nice waifu we got married the wedding was fantastic , we got a child together i got to name my child was really sweet… I then noticed something very strange… my child was using my neighbor Last name… every night from that point onward my wife was sleeping at my neighbor’s house… while i took care of the kid… > > That was the last time i played The Sims. EvE scam is not even close to that kind of scam , i got scared forever from that one moment. Better in a game than IRL. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1893 "2021-11-28T16:00:31Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > No group is going to ban newbros from mining. That is dumb and they will quickly realize that is what will lead to a decrease in their member numbers if it continues. Right, that’s why in the old thread, there were folks openly saying ‘please don’t do this. If you do this, we will have to stop letting new miners in until they skill up’. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1894 "2021-11-28T16:05:35Z")
> [@Kenneth\_Feld](#): > > Have you ever used an AirArc or Plasma cutter vs a band saw? > > If you cut a sheet of plate steel - you could use either and get the job done > > HOWEVER > > The airarc or Plasma will finish much much quicker - but the slag and material loss will be substantial Yes, but that’s material _processing_. They’ve already gotten the resources, and your waste slag can be reprocessed to recover about 95-99% of the steel you didn’t use. Material _gathering_ is something different. The accurate comparison would be panning for gold vs strip-mining the top of a mountain. And in strip-mining, _everything_ gets collected and sorted. Industrial-scale resource harvesting is fast _and_ efficient. If it wasn’t both, it would’ve been replaced by something that is, because any valuable ore you toss out is profits lost. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1895 "2021-11-28T16:07:10Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > there were folks openly saying ‘please don’t do this. If you do this, we will have to stop letting new miners in until they skill up’. Huh, it’s come to something when the sort of people telling gankers not to harm new players, are prepared to debar those same players from an activity they might enjoy, because of rank greed. Says more about those CEOs than about the proposed changes. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1896 "2021-11-28T16:17:47Z")
I promise, the lowsec/nullsec guys weren’t saying it because of rank greed. Once you get out of the kiddie pool, competition is cutthroat, and if you aren’t exploiting your resources absolutely _as well as possible_, you’re setting yourself for long-term failure. As for the CEOs… yeah, it says those CEOs are looking out for the long-term strategic needs of the hundreds or thousands of people they’re _already_ responsible to, more than the newbies who aren’t part of their org. Which is what they _should_ be doing. That is the responsibility of leadership, after all. EVE Online may be a game, but the people in your corp _aren’t_. If you’re part of leadership, and you aren’t prioritizing your guys, if you’re not taking your responsibilities to them as seriously as your responsibilities to people who trust you IRL, then you shouldn’t be in that job. Because you are wasting peoples’ effort, and more importantly, you are wasting their time. And time is something nobody can ever get back. All that said, though? The very fact that they’re saying ‘please don’t put us in that position’ _also_ says something about them, too. It says that they’re trying to look at the long-term interests of _more_ than just their own people, and that they’re _not_ the assholes you’re trying to make them out to be. ---
**Author:** ![TiberianSun371AlexW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiberiansun371alexw/32/510819_2.png) [@TiberianSun371AlexW](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TiberianSun371AlexW)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1897 "2021-11-28T17:05:16Z")
I think the modules should be balenced around ore/time not ore/rock. Rorqual too strong? Tweak the bonuses a bit, but don’t make them super wasteful. And tweak the barge to give better bonuses, or whatever, rather than their initial idea (before some revisions) of “let’s make all the noobs waste half the rock” ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1898 "2021-11-28T17:16:35Z")
That’s because people didn’t and still dont fully understand how the waste mechanics will work. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1899 "2021-11-28T17:24:23Z")
As a solo miner who’s not really doing it for the ISK ( I mean lets face it…300m ISK is the price of a pint of beer )…I really don’t care about all the technicalities. All I care about is that if ganking my Proc is made easier, I may just decide ‘stuff it’ and just bring in PLEX instead. But then…maybe that is the whole idea. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1900 "2021-11-28T17:30:01Z")
Lucky for you the proc didnt really change. The exhumers did get buffed tho ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1901 "2021-11-28T17:30:43Z")
No, it’s not. It’s because those people _did_ understand how waste mechanics were set up to work, and understood that—under the old proposed mechanics—newbies mining would reduce the effective value of their moons. Every single unit of moongoo lost to waste is money lost. Kenneth may think everyone will mine the mid-tier moon ores with waste-inducing strip miners, but he’s working off of the mining model he’s been using in Pandemic Legion. And not for nothing, but Pandemic Legion _isn’t_ known for their industrial savvy. _Every one_ of our guys that I’ve talked to has laughed at the idea. Every scrap of moongoo will be gathered. Because every scrap of FRT’s moongoo will be gathered, and if you’re not pulling ahead, you’re falling behind. You don’t survive a year-long assault and eight months of being besieged into a single constellation by being wasteful in the good times. You do it by building up your war chest, your stockpiles, and your members’ ability to weather hardship. That’s why, after eight months of us being camped into our staging, the Imperium’s ranks are still _growing_, and TEST and Brave, the guys who had all that extra space under their control, who had all the resources of Delve, Period Basis, and Querious to exploit for all those months… are _falling apart_. And it’s part_1_ of why a force 3x our size **lost** that war in a _hilarious_ explosion of finger-pointing and sniping at one another. Do not think for even one moment that people don’t understand how the waste mechanic would have worked under the old proposal, or how it will work under the new one. * * * 1. Oh, there are other reasons. Soooo many other reasons. But Horde complaining about getting new ships in? Gobbins and Progod setting up an expensive new Tengu doctrine everyone _had_ to get, then used **once** in spectacularly disastrous fashion in a fight where they _knew_ they were quitting the war before the fight started? Yeah, economics, baby. Strategy is how you fight wars. Logistics is how you win them. Economics is how you endure long enough for those two to do their thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1902 "2021-11-28T17:33:57Z")
’ Solo mining is not a God given right’ Really ? Maybe for alpha accounts that is true. But heck, I mine probably less than half of my monthly Omega subscription. Every ISK that I solo mine is something I have effectively _paid_ for in the first place. That gives me a right…whether God given or not. ---
**Author:** ![TiberianSun371AlexW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiberiansun371alexw/32/510819_2.png) [@TiberianSun371AlexW](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TiberianSun371AlexW)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1903 "2021-11-28T17:36:51Z")
Yeah you figured out what they were trying to do ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1904 "2021-11-28T17:37:50Z")
Ah so you are a goonswarm member that makes more sense. Sure newbros are going to mine less efficiently than a vet. However that is only the case with barges/exhumers. Waste is good because it forces people to decide how the want to mine. Be efficient with little waste Be fast with relatively high waste Be average with average waste Be expensive with no waste Even as a newbro you are not producing enough waste to make a difference. You mine slow enough and produce little enough waste it WILL NOT make a major difference. Now I see where null wants to cry because excavators are going to produce a lot of waste. Rorquals will produce more waste than a newbro in a barge/exhumer. What are you doing to do then? When your fleet of veteran rorqual multiboxers waste 40% of your moon because they refuse to change/let more efficient ships mine? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1905 "2021-11-28T17:39:39Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Lucky for you the proc didnt really change. The exhumers did get buffed tho Last I heard, they are still reducing the Proc from 4 mid slots to 2…and reducing the max speed from 160m/s down to 100. Those 4 mid slots are where I have my shielding. So I am down to just 2 of them…one of which will now have to have a MWD drive due to the reduced speed. I could just about get away with no MWD at the current speed…but 100m/s makes that impossible. So, effectively 3 mid slots have been nerfed. I’ve not seen anything saying this is now not happening. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=92) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=94)