# From Extraction To Production: Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [November 20, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887 "2021-11-20T00:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 94
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1906 "2021-11-28T17:40:52Z")
Well yes, you lose 2 mids however the skill bonuses make up for that along with the changed raw hp levels ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1907 "2021-11-28T17:41:03Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Even as a newbro you are not producing enough waste to make a difference. You mine slow enough and produce little enough waste it WILL NOT make a major difference. > > Now I see where null wants to cry because excavators are going to produce a lot of waste. Rorquals will produce more waste than a newbro in a barge/exhumer. What are you doing to do then? When your fleet of veteran rorqual multiboxers waste 40% of your moon because they refuse to change/let more efficient ships mine? I’ve already said what we’ll do. T1 strip miners. PANIC on the boosting Rorqs still gives plenty of time for the defense fleets to arrive. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1908 "2021-11-28T17:41:27Z")
Also, why on earth do you need a mwd on a proc? That is beyond pointless ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1909 "2021-11-28T17:43:04Z")
Yeah okay, so why bar newbros then. Newbros use t1 miners. So if everyone uses them why would they have to bar the newbros from mining? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1910 "2021-11-28T17:44:48Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > So if everyone uses them why would they have to bar the newbros from mining? That was under the **old** proposal, where the T1 modules would produce the most waste. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1911 "2021-11-28T17:46:08Z")
Because the original proposal from 2 weeks ago was that t1 miners would have 100% waste. People pointed out that newbros would be banned from mining. CCP changed to the current proposal as a result. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1912 "2021-11-28T17:47:17Z")
Even with 100% waste you’re just back to the levels of today. But that has been changed to 0% now (which is shouldn’t, should be at 50%) ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1913 "2021-11-28T17:48:34Z")
Which is what people were explaining to you because you asked. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1914 "2021-11-28T17:49:04Z")
Yes, but at 100% waste you’re _only_ at the levels of today. Which would have meant that the way for groups to successfully compete with their enemies would have been to be dicks to newbies. There really is no middle ground out here. You are either winning, or you’re losing. There is no ‘good enough’. ---
**Author:** ![littlertree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/littlertree/32/297975_2.png) [@littlertree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/littlertree)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1915 "2021-11-28T17:49:30Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > You clearly have no idea who mike is or what he does for newbies in highsec. And what is it supposed to do for the new ones? I have a good time making content in hs if you can call what remains of content and it has not done anything for me. I don’t give a damn who that mike is and his alts is a CSM and I’ll treat him like everyone else ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1916 "2021-11-28T17:51:21Z")
> [@littlertree](#): > > I don’t give a damn who that mike is and his alts is a CSM and I’ll treat him like everyone else That’s fine, but if you’re gonna accuse a guy who pretty much devotes all of his time in-game to helping newbies in highsec of being > [@littlertree](#): > > only good for pvp or at shuld i said "sit 16h in a figth " … you’re just gonna make yourself look like an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1917 "2021-11-28T17:52:51Z")
Oh but there is. Because veteran players are going to mine a helluva lot more than any newbro. The whole argument of newbros not being allowed to mine is just a reason to try and keep ccp from introducing the waste. Any veteran is going to easily outmine a single newbro in a barge with t1. The might waste a portion of a single rock and that waste is not what is going to put you ahead or behind your enemies. It is so insignificant that it will do nothing for a large nullbloc. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1918 "2021-11-28T17:55:53Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Oh but there is. No, there isn’t. Because the metric isn’t ‘how fast did you get the moongoo’ it’s ‘did you get it _all_?’ It’s not a question of speed. We’ll take longer to get it if that’s what’s needed, but we’ll get absolutely _as much as possible_. If the minimum amount of waste you can produce is a 34% chance to lose an amount equal to your yield, that’s what we’ll expect of everyone. > [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > It is so insignificant that it will do nothing for a large nullbloc. Spoken like someone who’s never actually been part of the leadership of a null bloc. Everything adds up. Ignoring the small fractions is what costs you in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![littlertree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/littlertree/32/297975_2.png) [@littlertree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/littlertree)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1919 "2021-11-28T17:56:52Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > … you’re just gonna make yourself look like an idiot. So far what I have experienced in their pety wars, which is to be 16 hours waiting for the kill mail to come out just for the tidi it is not pvp for me, sorry ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1920 "2021-11-28T17:57:51Z")
Yes, but **MIKE IS NOT PART OF ANY NULL GROUP. HE DOES NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THOSE WARS. HE IS A HIGHSEC GUY WHO SPENDS ALL OF HIS TIME HELPING NEWBIES**. ---
**Author:** ![littlertree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/littlertree/32/297975_2.png) [@littlertree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/littlertree)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1921 "2021-11-28T18:00:41Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > HE DOES NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THOSE WARS i doubt that > [@Arrendis](#): > > **HE IS A HIGHSEC GUY WHO SPENDS ALL OF HIS TIME HELPING NEWBIES**. define help please we know there are many definition of “helping” in this game ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1922 "2021-11-28T18:01:54Z")
> [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](#): > > Well yes, you lose 2 mids however the skill bonuses make up for that along with the changed raw hp levels I’ll have to see how it goes. As things currently stand I can get my Proc to 62K EHP ( 65K with overheating ) As for MWD on a Proc…my 5 Hobgoblins are an excellent means of ratting in the asteroid belts. In fact I’ve several times made more from looting the rats than from the actual ore for that run. Effectively I am doing PvE while mining. So I don’t want another 50 years added to the time it takes to get to the loot. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1923 "2021-11-28T18:02:03Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/c/a/1ca7162c43c2dbb4ff8e41228637782bbfd41996.jpeg "EVE PULSE - Quality of Life, New Avatar, Magic School Bus") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdZdD1Uayog) Do your goddamned due diligence before you start attacking people, dumbass. I did. That’s how I know you’re being a dumbass. 😛 NOTE: I am not singling you out as stupid or anything like that. We’re all dumbasses at times. But, you know, at least _try_ not to be, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1924 "2021-11-28T18:03:27Z")
> [@littlertree](#): > > define help please Runs an in game channel to help and advice. Fundraises ever year in order to provide free fitted ships to newbros no questions asked. The guy is an eve hero. Wind your neck in ---
**Author:** ![PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pixywarrior_ellecon/32/456340_2.png) [@PixyWarrior\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PixyWarrior_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887/1925 "2021-11-28T18:03:31Z")
Wait for the rats to come to you or use a mtu? Wasting a mid slot for an mwd is an awful fitting design. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=93) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-update/337887.md?page=95)