# From Extraction to Production - will it make me return to Eve? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417 "2021-11-12T21:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Awesome\_Breasts\_Granny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/awesome_breasts_granny/32/347800_2.png) [@Awesome\_Breasts\_Granny](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Awesome_Breasts_Granny)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/21 "2021-11-13T11:08:37Z")
Lots of complaining in the official thread. Looks like its gonna be a crappy update. ---
**Author:** ![Awesome\_Breasts\_Granny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/awesome_breasts_granny/32/347800_2.png) [@Awesome\_Breasts\_Granny](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Awesome_Breasts_Granny)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/22 "2021-11-13T11:11:47Z")
This! Selling my Orca in 3,2,1… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/23 "2021-11-13T11:48:59Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > new mining ships for industrialists (how many new combat ships have been introduced in the last few years?) All the mining ships are currently being changed, why would you need a _new_ mining ship? I’d like CCP to balance all the existing ships as they do now, rather than them adding more ships while ignoring the old. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > - higher mining yield for max skilled pilots (skilling is no easy feat, and the rewards in my opinion are not high enough). This includes bigger yields for both turrets and mining drones. You do get higher yield at higher skills - have you seen the ship bonuses and higher tier modules and crystals? > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > - lossless compression should remain in stations - I don’t mind there being a penalty to compressing ore in an undocked facility. No it should not. Compression always was too easy and without downsides. Now that we can compress _all_ the resources it’s good that we finally see a tiny drawback for compression, but it most of the cases compression will still be worth it. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > - bigger rewards for level 4 industry missions. (needs quadrupling). I honestly don’t see why this can’t be equal to the general mining yield across new eden, since it’s just an alternative gameplay that takes just the same amount of time. I have no idea about missions, so I’ll just skip this one. Or wait, I do have something to say: just because an alternative form of gameplay takes the same amount of time is no reason it should get the same reward. There are many other factors as well, such as risk, skill required, ease of access… > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > - remove the damage multiplier crap from player owned structures and actually make them worth their construction cost in terms of firepower and damage they can do. What? I don’t get what you’re talking about here. If player owned structures weren’t worth constructing, why do I see them everywhere in space? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/25 "2021-11-13T12:00:22Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > new mining ships for industrialists (how many new combat ships have been introduced in the last few years?) Why? And combat has a lot more depth than than mining. More roles to fill means more ships. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > higher mining yield for max skilled pilots (skilling is no easy feat, and the rewards in my opinion are not high enough). This includes bigger yields for both turrets and mining drones. High skill miners have a higher yield now. And drones were rightly nerfed considering how they were being used. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > lossless compression should remain in stations - I don’t mind there being a penalty to compressing ore in an undocked facility. Compression adds value and favours big refinery owners like the one in Perimeter. This way people are more likely to use (and pay) their local refineries (i.e. the little structure owners). > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > bigger rewards for level 4 industry missions. (needs quadrupling). I honestly don’t see why this can’t be equal to the general mining yield across new eden, since it’s just an alternative gameplay that takes just the same amount of time. I don’t even… Mining mission pay isn’t bad at all considering how much safer it is. Are you factoring in LP into that? > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > remove the damage multiplier crap from player owned structures and actually make them worth their construction cost in terms of firepower and damage they can do. Not sure what you’re getting at here. But structures are obviously worth it to some people. But they aren’t meant to be worth it to everyone. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > My biggest gripe: what the hell is this new waste feature!!! Rocks deplete twice as fast if you use T1 mods, but have been made twice as big (so NO CHANGE). If you use T2 mods with low waste you increase the effective size of the belt (more ore available per belt than now). ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/26 "2021-11-13T12:00:46Z")
I want starcakes. ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/27 "2021-11-13T12:02:19Z")
Ridiculous. Mooncakes or go home. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ocean_ormand/32/206896_2.png) [@Ocean\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ocean_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/28 "2021-11-13T12:33:38Z")
This was all tied to the removal of remote boosting. They had to figure out a reason why someone would want to actually put a roq on the field when it couldn’t remote boost anymore. Probably should have just let it remote boost. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/29 "2021-11-13T12:51:31Z")
Well it’s not like you can escape before gankers warped on grid anyways with an orca? ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/30 "2021-11-13T12:56:00Z")
> [@Locke\_Deninard](#): > > All you get in return for losing the ability to mine in your Orca is a target on your back because now every gank fleet will assume every Orca is full of compressed ore. There are many orcas being ganked for the sake of orcas! The hull last I checked was 1.8-1.9bil! There shouldn’t be fleets of orcas mining ore. I have saved many ganks as a t1 logistics in the trig invasions. My counter to it is to have logi or even ECM on grid. Being aware of the surroundings and tank well. There is no excuse to not practice anti ganking 101 Just because of new changes. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/31 "2021-11-13T15:06:56Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > It seems to me to basically be introducing a bunch of new capabilities while reducing the actual purpose - which is your ability to mine higher yields. Disclaimer: I don’t mine, never intend to mine, don’t know all the details of mining. That said, this update strikes me as being a victim of “feature and code bloat, with no actual vision or understanding”. I suspect in 5 years this update will either have been mostly stripped out, or will be referred to as “more of that godawful code we have no idea how to update or fix”. Why make a big deal of doubling resources, then in the same breath say you’re going to throw half those resources away as waste? (Except for T2 and faction modules). Wouldn’t it have been way simpler to simply put a yield bonus on those modules? Why call it “scarcity ending” when waste leaves the end result mostly the same, but add loss to compression and reduce the output of Orcas and Rorqs? This actually means there will be LESS refined minerals total and scarcity will increase. Why base your game on “trust no one, nowhere is safe, everything is a risk” and then keep trying with crappy design after crappy design to force players into fleets/corps? The end result has been shown in a lot of games: This design approach will cause the ones who already fleet to fleet harder, maybe 10% of solos will convert to sometime-fleeters, and they’ll drive 20% of your solo players away. (numbers used as a relative example, I don’t have data to illustrate those) The rewrite of mining crystals seems really poor to me. I mean seriously, “we introduce a new playstyle where you can waste your opponents resources with **really inefficient** mining”? Personally I have no problem with nuking Rorqs, Orcas, or mining, none of these changes are going to impact me. Just seems like another round of really poor design that the ever-hopefuls are interpreting as “Oh hey, look, _changes_. This is gonna be cool!”. ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/32 "2021-11-13T15:17:14Z")
the ganking aspect comes from having more elements designed to keep ships on grid (industrial cores) and mobile compression units. was that clear enought? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/33 "2021-11-13T15:46:10Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Why make a big deal of doubling resources, then in the same breath say you’re going to throw half those resources away as waste? (Except for T2 and faction modules). That footnote is pretty important. They are doubling the resources and they give us the tools to make use of those double resources. If people use lower effiency modules without mining crystals or choose to use high yield low efficiency crystals it’s up to them. The only thing I’m not really convinced is good about the waste system is how it may have a negative effect on newbies who want to mine the more valuable ores in a group, as people wouldn’t like it if half those ores go wasted due to lack of skills. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/34 "2021-11-13T16:02:30Z")
When using an Orca as a fleet booster you can stay aligned, even the best gankers show up on Dscan. I used Orcas in highsec and lowsec for years before they could mine, in fact I still have the first one I ever got, though it hasn’t undocked for a good while. This changes with the proposed changes “CCPoor design” is looking at. To fully utilise an Orca once these changes go live, will mean you can compress ore, ice and gas (which is actually pretty good) - With the biggest drawback being grossly increased vulnerability due to how the compression module works. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/35 "2021-11-13T16:23:28Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Why make a big deal of doubling resources, then in the same breath say you’re going to throw half those resources away as waste? (Except for T2 and faction modules). Wouldn’t it have been way simpler to simply put a yield bonus on those modules? Not really the same thing. Lower waste means that you get more resources from a belt but it takes longer to mine. The whole waste mechanic seems to be an attempt to add strategic decisions to mining. Want to make the most of a belt? Choose less waste. Want to mine quickly (cause you’re in dangerous space)? Choose high yield. Want to deny your enemies ore? Choose high waste. I won’t say it’s perfect, but i believe that is the concept of waste. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/36 "2021-11-13T16:29:13Z")
> [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > what is missing and what remains to be the key is that by nerfing the mining yield of drones, you are obliterating orca and rorqual pilots You do know mining Rorquals and Orcas is only a fairly recent thing? They were both around long before they became broken mining machines. Many older players who multiboxed Rorquals will simply revert to what they did prior to the last changes, 1 Rorqual and as many subcap miners as their computers hardware will allow them to run. For me it was usually 1 Rorq and 9 subcaps. I can’t see why a smart Orca multiboxer can’t do the same, all it does is force you to interact with the actual game more often. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Just seems like another round of really poor design It is but I believe part of the goal is to get “Alt Armies” actively mining again. “CCPoor design” has been hemorrhaging subscribed players and need to find a way to get players to resub all their currently Alpha mining alts. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/37 "2021-11-13T16:29:20Z")
I wasn’t clear enough in my post, I guess. I don’t mean “Why have this, I don’t understand it.” I mean “Why make this design decision when it’s a poor one and there are better ways of achieving the end goal?”. I understand the point they are trying to sell with this update. I don’t have faith that CCP will implement it well or that it will turn out to be an improvement for the majority of mining in the game. At any rate, we should see a brief boost in numbers as people login/sub for a month to check the changes out. Then we’ll find out if it leads to some recovery or just a further drop in player numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/38 "2021-11-13T16:37:15Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Why make this design decision when it’s a poor one and there are better ways of achieving the end goal?”. Yeah i don’t see any ideas forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Grimm\_Reborn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/grimm_reborn/32/383573_2.png) [@Grimm\_Reborn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Grimm_Reborn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/39 "2021-11-13T16:48:23Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I mean “Why make this design decision when it’s a poor one and there are better ways of achieving the end goal?”. Maybe your idea of what the end goal is is different from CCP’s? ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/40 "2021-11-13T17:02:29Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > I’m not sure but I’d hazzard a guess that not being able to warp off for the duration of the module is going to put Orcas at much higher risk of being killed. lol things just get better… ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417/41 "2021-11-13T17:04:44Z")
Glad you’re not in charge of Eve. Oh wait - are you? No thanks. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/from-extraction-to-production-will-it-make-me-return-to-eve/336417.md?page=3)