# Frustrating and unfair **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033 "2021-03-12T17:42:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/22 "2021-03-13T12:36:06Z")
> [@SENTENTZ](#): > > You look for internet before instal a game’’ how i need to start a game to not be a parrot or alot weaker then the rest?’’ before you start playing a game? i realy dont think so. UH pretty sure anyone who wants to give a game a proper go would look the game up on the internet before spending any money at all. > [@SENTENTZ](#): > > This thread is about fairness, eguality and equal chances , when starting a new game…from the player point of view. What have you been denied that other players have access to? (Thats what you need to define when saying its “unfair”) ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/23 "2021-03-13T12:41:01Z")
> [@SENTENTZ](#): > > You look for internet before[…]? Actually with EVE is that story that you have to do that before you do literally anything for first time, else you just take the long route where you have to go thru thorn bush without machete. And at the finish CCP will take your cookie and laugh at you. ---
**Author:** ![SENTENTZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sententz/32/261141_2.png) [@SENTENTZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SENTENTZ)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/24 "2021-03-13T13:05:18Z")
I just want to tell you my story as a new client and a new player who come to EVE Online. I realy didnt look for hidden stuff like ‘‘1 mil xp’’. I look on you tube on many movies actualy, on flying, space, ships, wormholes…etc …few weeks actualy . I love it, so i go to my steam account, try to instal it…didnt work for some reason, i let it down few days, i tried again… still didnt work, then i go to eve website , instal the game , start to play. After 14-15 days i found out from ingame chat that you can have 1 mil xp if you come ingame by a referral or how is called . Oh and xp is growing extremly hard for a new player who is full of hardship and try to learn, and i can tell you this game is realy realy hard for a noobish player like me. So alot of frustration start to acumulate and even want few times to uninstall the game …goin crazy on some stuff, some kills and few hours just to buy some stuff for the ship on each kill (crazy s.hit i tell you that). I dont want nothing from noone anymore, i just know for sure that EVE loose more the 70-80% of new players in the first days/weeks, just because hardship, frustration and unfairness. A stay cos i love it and i see the potential and i’m a exfreelancer and space fan. I’m just saying my problems as a new player in EVE, is this a forum …right? for problems? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/25 "2021-03-13T13:12:33Z")
Yes, but peeps here will say its just a “great filter” whatever that means. Dont know who is it supposed to filter in or out, I have seen all kinds of peeps… Maybe they just want to feel special, like veterans of great pie fight. [https://media.giphy.com/media/QyzreLUrTFNkPycKEv/giphy.gif(image larger than 4096KB)](https://media.giphy.com/media/QyzreLUrTFNkPycKEv/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/26 "2021-03-13T13:48:13Z")
> [@SENTENTZ](#): > > how i need to start a game to not be a parrot or alot weaker then the rest?’’ before you start playing a game? I was interested in the game, looked up a few gameplay guides which didn’t help much, checked the newbie forums. Created an account, started doing things, asked questions in rookie, read other’s auestions and answers in Rookie, learned about the alpha guide, watched a few starter videos. Within 2 days I learned of this whole referral system. I played on a bit because why not, then decided I wanted to try something different faction and gameplay wise, and thus made the new account with the 1 mil SP. It’s really just a result of interacting with others, probably in the Rookie channel, and doing the most basic actions of wanting to get an idea of what you’re getting in to. Do not blame the game or other players for your lack of drive and effort. If you had put as much effort into wanting to learn about the game as you have put so far in this thread, you’d have had the 1 mil SP. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/27 "2021-03-13T13:59:28Z")
> [@Xanthellus](#): > > This thread is a bunch of baloney. If as a new player you hang around the Rookie channel, you watch some “how to get started in EVE” YouTube’s or join a corp/read the corp recruitment spam then you would have known about this. That’s how I learned of it. > [@Xanthellus](#): > > I was interested in the game, looked up a few gameplay guides which didn’t help much, checked the newbie forums. Created an account, started doing things, asked questions in rookie, read other’s auestions and answers in Rookie, learned about the alpha guide, watched a few starter videos. Within 2 days I learned of this whole referral system. I played on a bit because why not, then decided I wanted to try something different faction and gameplay wise, and thus made the new account with the 1 mil SP. You completely miss the point. Some people start playing, create a character that they like with the name they want, make a bit of progress, and get attached to the game. And _then_ they find out about the referral program, with their only form of recourse being to start over again. Just because it’s not important to _you_, doesn’t mean it’s not important to _others_. This isn’t a “pull yourself by the bootstraps” issue, either. It’s a hassle at best, and depressing at worst, and there’s quite literally no need to depress new players without any good reason in a game that already has a low retention rate due to its open-world nature. ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/28 "2021-03-13T14:12:15Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Some people start playing, create a character that they like with the name they want, make a bit of progress, and get attached to the game. I learned about it within 2 days and I’m not special so he could have done the same or even earlier and could have recreated his character. You don’t get “attached to your character” 2 days into a new game you know nothing about and chose not to put effort in to to learn anything about. Why should he be “rewarded” for that? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/29 "2021-03-13T14:13:22Z")
Yo @Mike_Azariah - something to maybe mention to those guys you meet with. ---
**Author:** ![MajorBean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/majorbean/32/382916_2.png) [@MajorBean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MajorBean)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/30 "2021-03-13T16:33:10Z")
I once lost Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 after i forgot to upgrade my Clone. Back then there were no skill injectors. I lost 1.536.000 SP. HTFU ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/31 "2021-03-13T17:09:53Z")
I have tried to explain to ccp that the skill point requirements for ships should be reduced to no more then 1 month training for each ship type and bumping the training time lost from “getting in the ships” to “perfecting them”. I think getting in a ship is one of the single largest reasons for low retention rate (people quitting fast), next to the forced pvp and abuse in high sec. All the excitment for other mmos is about getting to “end game” and performing well, but eve is really about dropping money in the game (because of its bad retention rates) and getting statistical values (instead of performing well with them). It would be the equivalent of saying “play wow for 15 years and drop loads of cash in it to rofl stop 100 noobs solo” and we all know how well that would go over in wow (not!). Eve has some serious design flaws out the gate, and it has some innovative aspects to it. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/32 "2021-03-13T17:33:51Z")
And of course your suggestion to ccp would include “eliminate pvp from hisec”. Because with that position you would prevent clueless people from losing the ships they fly cluelessly - something which would become very apparent when they get “roflstomped”, endure “forced pvp” and be “abused” in hisec. Drama is an art you seem to have perfected to dizzying heights, in this and other threads. ---
**Author:** ![SENTENTZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sententz/32/261141_2.png) [@SENTENTZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SENTENTZ)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/33 "2021-03-13T18:04:02Z")
Eliminate pvp just for 2-3 systems only for a determined time 2 weeks for example, just for ‘‘learning to use a ship systems’’ and like 50-100 more learning missions, that will be cool to do, i tell you that from a noob view. Why? its very technical and hard to learn for noobs, nothing else. Seems easy for a few months or years player, but are too many infos for a begginer. And ofcurse no more 1 mil xp for some begginers and none for others, is just not fair, cos are all begginers ! ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/34 "2021-03-13T18:15:41Z")
PvP IS eliminated in some systems (see [Rookie Griefing – EVE Online](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing)). As to the 1M sp, I guess you mean the ones via referral link ? Simply set up a new alpha account via referral ? Overall, you won’t hear me disagreeing with the fact that it’s a hard game to learn. Yes, there is a lot of opportunity to improve the life of rookies, mostly via Guidance, but not via imposing limits on liberties, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/35 "2021-03-13T18:18:22Z")
I have. Both the good and the bad of the program as it stands. But I always appreciate the heads up, thanks X ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/36 "2021-03-14T00:34:33Z")
This is not about eliminating pvp from high sec, i do not advocate for that. I advocate for removing non-consensual pvp from high sec. You guys bark around arguments against it, but its all about you ganking noobs and getting free crap. You are not fooling anyone. Look at the early days of eve, when population hit the highest. Large amounts of it was in high sec, and high sec activity was extremely important and played a major part of the foundation of alliances and people stepping out into other parts of eve. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/37 "2021-03-14T01:24:23Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > I advocate for removing non-consensual pvp from high sec. There is no “consensual PvP” aside from arenas. > [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > Look at the early days of eve, when population hit the highest. Large amounts of it was in high sec, and high sec activity was extremely important and played a major part of the foundation of alliances and people stepping out into other parts of eve. You mean the days when high-sec PvP was much less restricted than it is today? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/38 "2021-03-14T01:57:42Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > You are not fooling anyone. Indeed I’m not. I am an advocate for the need to cull the herds **everywhere** in order to keep them (and the game) healthy. Food chain if you like, production in balance with destruction. And again, I am also an advocate for more guidance for rookies, to help them on their way in recognizing and reducing risk when it presents itself in New Eden. You don’t teach a kid to swim on dry land, and you don’t simply throw them in the water either if you want higher player retention. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/39 "2021-03-14T03:14:54Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > I am an advocate for the need to cull the herds **everywhere** in order to keep them (and the game) healthy. And there’s also a need to limit actions of predator’s, if anything to make sure there is always prey available. Basically it comes down to this - too many wolves and not enough sheep will make this game unhealthy as well. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/40 "2021-03-14T03:39:59Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > And there’s also a need to limit actions of predator’s, if anything to make sure there is always prey available. No there isn’t; it’s a self-correcting process. The _only_ thing that CCP needs to do is to make sure that game mechanics are equitable (e.g. that all forms of play have a counter-play method available in a rock-paper-scissors type of system). Interfering on behalf of prey breaks the natural balance, and creates complacency in the prey population while making predators adapt much quicker and more intensely, which throws the system into a never-ending loop of requiring more and more intervention on behalf of prey just to maintain the status quo and prevent the now nuclear-powered predators from reaping the sheep like spring wheat. This is exactly what I’ve observed over the years, as a decade-plus ago, people were forming gangs to fight back, joining alliances to increase their strength, and we had groups of miners and mission runners forming into blobs to hunt us. But in recent years, as CCP has continued obliging the “sheep” with non-consensual PvP nerfs, all these players do is throw a few insults in local, and then log off, often permanently. On top of this, the predators have adapted to such an extent that they’re so organized, and use such intricate tactics, that it’s virtually impossible to fight back without an even larger, organized military force (which will never happen now as they’ve all banded together into super-groups in order to deal with the artificial limitations of expensive war fees, structure requirements, and the war ally system). With all your good intent, by trying to help these players by interfering on their behalf through the use of artificial limitations imposed on the predators, you actually end up _hurting_ them in the long run. Think of it like this: you set up shop in a savanna, and start watching over a herd of antelope. Every time you see some lions lining up for a kill, you scare them off with your jeep. Time passes, and the lions are completely famished, while the antelope just hang out and keep eating grass and don’t have to deal with running around and watch out for themselves, growing fat and complacent. Then one day, you and your jeep disappear. What’s going to happen to the antelope then? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033/41 "2021-03-14T03:46:38Z")
😅 🤣 😂 Yeah, ok… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/frustrating-and-unfair/300033.md?page=3)