# Game isn't actually free **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 16, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836 "2022-08-16T16:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/193 "2022-08-23T14:39:06Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Kellian logic: if you can’t “win” an argument make a hodgepodge of completely unrelated stuff (core business model vs. opportunistic monetisation), shove it under someone’s nose, call him a crackhead and tell him to eat what you just concocted. For the rest of us it’s simply called “squirming like a devil in a vat of holy water”. > It seems you don’t know what you can do with SP over 20M ? And that you need a sub to cross that line ? Doesn’t look good on you, not good at all. If played he’d know what he was talking about. He’s just throwing sh- at the wall hoping some of it will stick. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/194 "2022-08-23T14:43:41Z")
He knows full well what he’s talking about, he knows the facts, he’s been here for many years. It’s just that he can’t find it in himself to alter any viewpoint. For some odd reason it would feel like a defeat instead of a constructive exchange. I could be wrong though (and learn something too, lol). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/195 "2022-08-23T14:46:29Z")
Well, you technically admited it, so its not really an attack with teeth… So if attacks were advantages, it would be a not really an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/196 "2022-08-23T14:47:47Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > He knows full well what he’s talking about, he knows the facts, he’s been here for many years. It’s just that he can’t find it in himself to alter any viewpoint. For some odd reason it would feel like a defeat instead of a constructive exchange Okay. Which means he’s arguing in bad faith and essentially trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/198 "2022-08-23T14:52:13Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Well, you technically admited it, so its not really an attack with teeth… It isn’t an attack and I don’t want to call it as such but since he argued they were both attacked then I can play that game too. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So if attacks were advantages, it would be a not really an advantage 😅 Right, it wouldn’t be. And wouldn’t be a _win_ either. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/199 "2022-08-23T14:53:57Z")
Good job none of us are paying for it eh Well, except those of us reading this thread for god only knows reason ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/201 "2022-08-23T14:58:35Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Good job none of us are paying for it eh We wouldn’t hear the end of it. This thead would have 500 posts on A2W - attack to win, hehe > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Well, except those of us reading this thread for god only knows reason A very entertaining thread. Surprised it hasn’t been locked yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/202 "2022-08-23T15:04:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I love how you consider that an attack, particularly since you claimed there’s nothing wrong with playing Fortnite You really have no clue, do you? > [@Maxine\_Macks](#): > > It isn’t an attack and I don’t want to call it as such but since he argued they were both attacked then I can play that game too ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/203 "2022-08-23T15:05:53Z")
> [@Ursula\_Anders](#): > > You really have no clue, do you? He does. He’s just been trolling us this whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/204 "2022-08-23T15:08:38Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I disagree. It plays into how game-breaking a given P2W mechanic is but it’s P2W if you can pay for any advantages of progress skips, no matter whether you think they would personally impact your ability to compete or not. You can continue stating that. The rest of us simply do not agree that it has any relevance in the setting of this game, EvE Online. One may think they pay for an advantage (a virtual P4A game ?), chances are heavily against it being an advantage except in cherrypicked situations, not overall. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Pity for you I already won the argument. I’m okay with you thinking that, if it makes you feel alright. I don’t need you to declare me or someone else a winner, this isn’t a competition. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The company cannot exist without people paying them for their products. That’s why the summer of rage actually effected a change, because there was a strong enough threat of them actually losing a substantial portion of their income. Do you have any idea what their current revenue from EvE Online is now vs. 2010-11 ? Summers of rage don’t work with the current mindset of CCP (and barely worked back then). Slow erosion is the result of a flat refusal by CCP to enter in a meaningful dialogue, with more people trickling out as more unpopular changes are pushed in. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > people like yourself will defend CCP regardless of what they do hardly, if you took the time to read my criticisms in “quite a few” threads. However, I will not accuse someone I happen to not like for being a witch when I don’t have proof. It looked rather silly in “Monty Python and the Holy Grail”, imagine what it is in real life… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Some of that drop is down to COVID restrictions “some”, but the trend has not stopped, while the COVID effect has. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > since we’ve got no way to measure ARPU there’s no real way for us to see if a drop in PCU is impacting income. Right, so the thing we look at is right here [The Nosy Gamer: Pearl Abyss Q2 2022 Earnings Call](https://nosygamer.blogspot.com/2022/08/pearl-abyss-q2-2022-earnings-call.html) EDIT: I only copy/pasted the bits without attempts at more _ad hominems_. For more entertainment, please read his original posts, not just the quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/205 "2022-08-23T15:09:14Z")
Oh. I get it now. Lucas Kell does think EVE isn’t P2W but he decided to troll the thread and say it was. I guess he got bored? If he played the game he wouldn’t be bored. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/206 "2022-08-23T15:13:58Z")
Thank you. So my guess was spot on completely. Peoples are so angry and mad about me and @Lucas_Kell saying EVE is pay to win game because they have prejudices towards pay to win games, hate them and avoid them. So naturally they don’t want to accept they are playing such game because it would break their integrity on the matter. So case closed. All the counter arguments are just a self-defense. That is why they are not making any sense and that is why you can’t accept pay to win definition from wikipedia or anywhere else, but only yours own definition is the right one. With that. I am done here. Next! ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/207 "2022-08-23T15:17:07Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > So case closed. Yep, case closed. Lucas was trolling and you thought he was seriously thinking EVE is P2W. 😅 In fact, he trolled you too. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/208 "2022-08-23T15:18:51Z")
> [@Maxine\_Macks](#): > > Yep, case closed. > Lucas was trolling and you thought he was seriously thinking EVE is P2W. 😅 In fact, he trolled you too. 🤣 You’re funny person. Would love to fleet with you and hang out in game. You’re in Amarr space? ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/209 "2022-08-23T15:20:18Z")
@Ursula_Anders Would love that too. I live in Amarr space, yes. Will contact you in-game. And thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/210 "2022-08-23T15:21:05Z")
Yes, as a matter of fact I’d like to fleet up with both of you @Ursula_Anders and @Maxine_Macks - wardecs permitting. Imagine Lukas bringing people closer together. Who would have thunk 😛 @Ramona_McCandless you game too ? I’ve seen you floating around in amarr space often enough, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/213 "2022-08-23T15:23:19Z")
Im currently on WH duty but I could always send HE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/214 "2022-08-23T15:23:22Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Yes, as a matter of fact I’d like to fleet up with both of you @Ursula_Anders and @Maxine_Macks - wardecs permitting. Works for me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/215 "2022-08-23T15:25:09Z")
@Wadiest_Yong Sounds good to me. Let’s see what kind of trouble we can get into. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836/216 "2022-08-23T15:27:12Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > HE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED Sounds ominous, kinda scary in fact. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/game-isnt-actually-free/373836.md?page=10)