# Gankers and freighters, a request for discussion. Not a BJ RANT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236 "2018-03-05T15:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Roggo\_II\_Seuchenvogel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roggo_ii_seuchenvogel/32/82810_2.png) [@Roggo\_II\_Seuchenvogel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roggo_II_Seuchenvogel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/231 "2018-03-10T16:01:21Z")
Because its too easy to kill them compared to other freighters. Lack of balancing. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/232 "2018-03-10T16:01:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Horsecrap. > > Ive read dozens of bump whine threads. > > None of then have ever proposed ramming. Then you are either blind or can’t read. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Where the hell I have said they will not adopt their tactics? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Target would still be bumped, per current mechanics, but the rammer left severely damaged. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/233 "2018-03-10T16:06:03Z")
Just because it is more vulnerable to one specific tactic does not mean he is to all of them. Not everyone uses torps to gank ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/234 "2018-03-10T16:17:45Z")
I request a QQ Salvos video ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/238 "2018-03-10T19:00:32Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Would depend on how much dmg a ramming cata can do to a more massive target. Yes, I too like to move other people’s goal posts. I already stated that they did 2% damage…so one could kill a freighter with catalysts and not draw CONCORD and maybe not even lose the catalysts. The point is that this is just bad design in that people will find a way to game it and we are basically back here with alot of hand wringing, whining, complaining, and tears…and of course those collecting the tears and laughing, and pointing, and joking. _ **AND** _ lets not forget that those who are complaining, whining, and crying also _ **made a sequence of bad decisions** _. If you are getting bumped it is in preparation for a gank and that typically happens when you have made several bad decisions and taken on too much risk. People who take on too much risk should indeed suffer the consequences. That suffering is what will teach them not repeat the mistake (hopefully). ---
**Author:** ![Ildrara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ildrara/32/56659_2.png) [@Ildrara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ildrara)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/240 "2018-03-11T00:15:28Z")
Easy fix. Makes ships invulnerable to bumping when it initiates warp. No more exploitive bumping for a high sec scram. If gankers want to kill it they will have to gank it the old fashioned way. If an auto pilot goes afk they will have to deal with the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/242 "2018-03-11T04:38:33Z")
> [@Roggo\_II\_Seuchenvogel](#): > > I checked ZKill and just see that 5 jump-freighters have been ganged today. 5/5 are Rhea. Always with the same “lame” strategy. I had my fleet sitting in the same setup I would be killing the other 3 JF hulls with… 5 Rheas was purely coincidental and it wouldn’t have mattered if they were 5 Anshars. > [@Roggo\_II\_Seuchenvogel](#): > > So, it seems to be a logic error to grant the freighters with the lowest hp a “big shield” that has 0 effectiveness against a specific type of damage. I don’t know if you’ve noticed it, but all the jumpfreighters are weak to a certain resist, a 300-1million ehp ship with a get out of jail free teleportation card isn’t safe enough I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/244 "2018-03-11T06:37:00Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I already stated that they did 2% damage…so one could kill a freighter with catalysts and not draw CONCORD and maybe not even lose the catalysts. In your example, yes. But it is not set that they would cause 2% dmg, each. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/245 "2018-03-11T06:38:29Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > In your example, yes. > > But it is not set that they would cause 2% dmg, each. You know by not reading the rest of the post you really do come off looking really bad. The point is that such a system can be gamed. That is what people are trying to tell you, but you refuse to consider this point. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/246 "2018-03-11T06:41:43Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > The point is that such a system can be gamed. What if ramming Catas cause 0% dmg? Ofc all systems can be “gamed”. Nothing new about that. The bump system is also currently “gamed”. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/248 "2018-03-11T06:46:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Ofc all systems can be “gamed”. > Nothing new about that. > The bump system is also currently “gamed”. Which was noted awhile ago…all that would end up happening is we’d be back here with the same whining just for different reasons. And I like how your proposal is morphing to constantly morphing to handle all these special cases. “Okay, that ship won’t cause any damage…and that ship too…and that one too…” If you have make up special cases maybe it is just a bad idea…that has been discussed to death. I know you won’t drop this…so I’m dropping out. You can spam this thread to death until @CCP_Falcon decides it has run it’s course. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/250 "2018-03-11T06:48:48Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I like how your proposal is morphing to constantly morphing to handle all these special cases. That’s how proposals are developed/improved. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/258 "2018-03-11T07:01:51Z")
> **[Reaction GIF](http://replygif.net/1388)** > > Tagged with popcorn, Richard Ayoade, The IT Crowd ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/263 "2018-03-11T07:10:08Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > That you failed in 2012 does not mean I will fail in 2018. … > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I will drop the ram suggestion. Doh! ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Falcon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_falcon/32/143229_2.png) [@CCP\_Falcon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/282 "2018-03-12T11:09:11Z")
Keep this thread on topic and cut out the personal attacks, discussion of moderation, and talk of reporting people. Keep it in line, and within the forum rules. Hate doing it, but respect the forum rules or you’ll all get you asses handed to you. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/283 "2018-03-12T11:17:16Z")
This wouldn’t happen if we just had a block feature. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/284 "2018-03-12T11:53:34Z")
> [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > This wouldn’t happen if we just had a block feature. Nobody is forcing you to submit offensive/abusive posts as you did above. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/285 "2018-03-12T12:29:17Z")
> [@Tian\_Tian\_Tian](#): > > This weekend I was offline because I knew Burn Jita was coming. Looking through the destruction that’s been going on, I’ve decided to sell my freighter off and downgrade to a DST instead. What changed my mind was a percieved imbalance in risk taken between freighter pilots and gank fleets (individual weighted roll of the dice versus distributed and calculatable sacrifice). Viewing this relationship, the power dynamics felt imbalanced. Is this perception flawed? OP, I think the perception you have is a common one, but the actual rate of freighter loss overall in highsec is low. Since the end of Burn Jita, I started saving off killmails from zkillboard’s redis feed. The dataset is a touch under 50,000 killmails (not all killmails since burn jita, just periods I’ve saved off), but enough to still see the trend: ![analysis](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/8/687b489f1a3b71379ae8e096a5fcb1004d9a7744.png) That’s freighter ganks (not includng war losses or killright scamming) and for a dataset of almost 18500 highsec killmails, less than 100 of those are freighter ganks (including freighters, bowhead, orca and jump freighters). Over 2500 gank ships on the killmails, to kill less than 100 freighters in that dataset, with an average of 27 gankers per freighter (and range from 12 - 39). Only half of 1 percent of ships lost in highsec are freighters being ganked and a lot of what you were doing with your freighter (eg. using Dotlan, killboards, webbing, scouting) makes it unlikely you’d be ganked. So, I think you’d probably be ok to not sell your freighter, but DSTs are even safer. - Worth noting that zkillboard records approximately 50,000 killmails per day (total for all regions of space), so in the last week, the total data available is about 7 times what I’ve recorded, but the dataset is good enough to be representative overall. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/286 "2018-03-12T12:39:30Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Only half of 1 percent of ships lost in highsec are freighter being ganked and a lot of what you were doing with your freighter (eg. using Dotlan, killboards, webbing, scouting) makes it unlikely you’d be ganked. This. If anything, there is nowhere near enough freighter destruction in HS, not its inverse. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Falcon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_falcon/32/143229_2.png) [@CCP\_Falcon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/287 "2018-03-12T12:45:26Z")
Both of you knock it off, and stop behaving like a pair of children. Last warning. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=13)