# Gankers and freighters, a request for discussion. Not a BJ RANT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236 "2018-03-05T15:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/535 "2018-04-09T19:57:36Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its defuncting use of scram/disruptor/bubble, which are the legitimate warp disablers. No it isn’t. Nothing stops a pilot from using any, or all, of these ways of interfering with warp-off. The bumping tactic is used in addition to these other methods. Bumping is just another tool in a pilots toolbox. The tactic has its specialized use, just like most toolboxes have wrenches in various diameters AND an adjustable wrench. Sometimes the specific wrench is better, sometimes you’d rather use the adjustable one. Again, having more tools does not make the other tools worthless or of less value. They all shine when used in their specialized areas. –Gadget should reorganize her toolbox - it needs a dusting. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/536 "2018-04-09T19:57:37Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > That is far from certain. > > And even if it was, many intended elements in EVE have been changed afterwards. Come now. Entering was warp 100% intended to be dependent on achieving a sufficient movement vector towards your destination. That isn’t in dispute. And yes, we can change it, and I am keeping a very open-mind about this, but you haven’t be able to give me a single reason why. Is it because they are redundant then? If that is the case, what problem is that causing? Redundancy isn’t generally considered a problem - it often is built into things to make them more robust - so what problem is this redundancy causing? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Why not? > > As above, CCP developers change previous iterations all the time. Because it costs developer time and resources. It might break things. It could alter game balance around the capital ships that are susceptible to bumping that might then require additional developer resources to fix. There are many reasons to not touch something and leave it be. You are the one proposing taking these risks and paying these costs to change the current way the physics around warp work. And I haven’t heard one reason why the game would be better if your change was made. I agree, CCP could have implemented things your way, or one of a hundred others, but they didn’t. They choose this system and while I am not at all adverse to change, you have to be able to justify why we should change things from the status quo other than because “it should be this way”. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its defuncting use of scram/disruptor/bubble, which are the legitimate warp disablers. > > A ship collision is just a bump and displacement. It does not need to overlap with these dedicated modules for purposes of interfering with warping. I agree, it doesn’t need to be this way, but it is. I disagree though that it encroaching on the turf of the tackle modules - bumping is useless against 95% of ships in the game. Ok, I think that is close to a reason I will get out of you, and it is one that any reasonable person can see is completely flawed. I’ll stop here. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/537 "2018-04-09T19:58:24Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > This is a really good example of you demonstrating how you have not the slightest idea of the game. Pfft. You already stated the purpose of bumping is to displace a ship. That will still happen when it no longer interferes with warping. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Ships can still warp while bumped. Then there is no impediment to widening the align cone and decoupling velocity vector from warping, is there. 1. Be pointed at destination within cone. 2. Reach 75% of nominal speed, in any direction. 3. Complete align time 4. Warp. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/538 "2018-04-09T20:01:47Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Again, having more tools does not make the other tools worthless or of less value. They all shine when used in their specialized areas. Right. And thats why bumping should not interfere with warping. All it should do, is displace the ship. If you want to interfere with warp, use the modules for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/539 "2018-04-09T20:02:21Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Be pointed at destination within cone. > Reach 75% of nominal speed, in any direction. > Complete align time > Warp. Bless whoever taught you that What a great intelligent person ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/540 "2018-04-09T20:04:11Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > I agree, it doesn’t need to be this way, but it is. I disagree though that it encroaching on the turf of the tackle modules - bumping is useless against 95% of ships in the game. My proposal wont remove bumping as displacement. That wont change. It just wont interfere with warping. If you want to do that, use the dedicated modules for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/541 "2018-04-09T20:07:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Then there is no impediment to widening the align cone and decoupling velocity vector from warping, is there. That would all depend on the game design reasons that CCP chose the current conditions for alignment. So unless you know why that decision was made, you can’t know whether there is any impediment or not. It would certainly change things in the game totally unrelated to bumping, especially to the ability to tackle ships in PvP, which would reach align to warp faster if trying to escape. So to keep the status quo for all other situations, this would need to be accompanied by changes to every ships agility, which would then negate the effect of relaxing the alignment conditions. That all seems like a lot of work for no real change in the end, otherwise it’s a change with a whole lot of other impacts, totally unnecessary for the game. However, if you know why CCP chose the current alignment conditions, then you might be able to discuss whether changing it has any impediment or not. Until then, we can only look at all of the other impacts and ask why? ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/542 "2018-04-09T20:08:59Z")
Salvowned, make sure you read that last post carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/543 "2018-04-09T20:14:43Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > which would reach align to warp faster if trying to escape. A wider cone, and lack of velocity vector in any direction, wont change align time to warp out. The ship will still have to turn into the cone, be traveling at 75% of max nominal speed, and complete the align time. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Until then, we can only look at all of the other impacts and ask why? The impact will simply be that bumping no longer fks with the process of warping. It will still displace a ship, as per usual. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/544 "2018-04-09T20:19:34Z")
You aren’t taking into consideration what other areas of Eve Online this will effect is what he is saying. You’re too narrow minded to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/545 "2018-04-09T20:20:16Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > You aren’t taking into consideration what other areas of Eve Online this will effect is what he is saying. You’re too narrow minded to see that. I addressed those. It wont impact anything except bumping. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/546 "2018-04-09T20:21:52Z")
Copy pasta how you addressed those issues. Too many posts of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/547 "2018-04-09T20:22:20Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Copy pasta how you addressed those issues Read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/548 "2018-04-09T20:23:17Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The impact will simply be that bumping no longer fks with the process of warping. There are other unnecessary impacts of this that would need much broader balancing to compensate for. As Gadget wrote way up the thread, the best approach, if any change is needed, is to just introduce the time limit to bumping, though CCP seem to have dropped that idea to, for a reason not articulated. That is a change that doesn’t impact a whole lot of areas that your proposal does, but even there, there must be a reason CCP hasn’t done it like they orginally indicated they would. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/549 "2018-04-09T20:24:29Z")
No it’s trash. I’m just here to read how many times you can repeat yourself and it still not make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/550 "2018-04-09T20:24:57Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > There are other unnecessary impacts of this. Such as? List them and I will address them. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/551 "2018-04-09T20:27:49Z")
CCP should really add a bot preventing people from spamming the same garbage over and over again We would have saved 450 posts on here easy E:451 E2: bits are only good on twitch ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/552 "2018-04-09T20:29:28Z")
You’re post 501. Better include up to there trash man! ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/553 "2018-04-09T20:30:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Such as? I already wrote one above. This allows ships to reach alignment faster and would need changes to agility for allships to keep the status quo. For example, ships already moving at speed are limited by agility in reaching alignment. They would reach alignment faster with this approach and be able to escape from PvP easier. So this change will impact tackling in a tonne of PvP situations. This is where wider rebalancing would be required, to compensate for this change, to keep the status quo everywhere else, so even your suggestion would have 0 impact in the end. Instead of a broad spectrum approach like this, the targeted approach of the time limit is much better (if needed at all, which it isn’t in my opinion). However even there, there must be a reason CCP hasn’t implemented it yet, that we are not aware of in the playerbase. That’s part of the disadvantage of broad spectrum changes, that affect everything. They aren’t limited to only affecting the one issue. The impacts are much wider. This is also why a good, targeted change is usually much better, but even then, there is a history in the game of unexpected consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/554 "2018-04-09T20:33:46Z")
Salvoooo don’t type yet. Read his reply 4 times over before typing. Let’s make sure you understand this. If you want I will gladly read it out loud to you. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=24) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=26)