# Gankers and freighters, a request for discussion. Not a BJ RANT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236 "2018-03-05T15:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/675 "2018-04-11T08:39:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > 20mins is ridiculous. > > How long it takes a fleet to pull its thumb out and reach a distant bumped target is their own problem, They can instead have ships ready closer to bump targets, or use faster mobilizing fleets. Salvos, the number of ships needed to gank them means that you have to gather people. I don’t like it as much as you, but I understand their POV. And dropping it to 3 minutes or 90 seconds would perhaps require a reduction in EHP, people could of course use bumping to slow people up, but only idiots would keep trundling along. EDIT: I should point out that the point should not reset the timer…, if it does no EHP reduction! ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/676 "2018-04-11T08:44:23Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Iirc, BP suggested 3mins, and Teckos suggested 90s. 3 minutes was what CCP proposed. I am fine with that, if as likely, you can reset that warp attempt with a suicide point. That would add a cost (small in ISK, higher in attention/players/skill) that would make bumping someone for hours have more of a cost than just constant attention. If it is a hard time limit then 3 minutes is nowhere near enough. That is barely enough time to get a fleet sitting there waiting undocked and across a system bouncing a few safes, and definitely not enough time to travel anywhere. Something more like 5-15 minutes would be more reasonable to get people to a fight. I don’t understand this entitlement that freighters should be immune to being even delayed. A (reasonable) delay is good as it allows both sides to call for help and the fight to escalate. Being delayed 5-10 minutes isn’t going to ruin anyone’s day. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/677 "2018-04-11T08:45:43Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Salvos, the number of ships needed to gank them means that you have to gather people. I don’t like it as much as you, but I understand their POV. Require them to remain on-call during operation hours. That is a fleet organisation matter, not a bump matter. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And dropping it to 3 minutes or 90 seconds would perhaps require a reduction in EHP Why? Bumping has no effect on EHP. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/678 "2018-04-11T08:47:05Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Require them to remain on-call during operation hours. That is a fleet organisation matter, not a bump matter. Which is why I am a bit wobbly on this too… > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Why? > > Bumping has no effect on EHP. It is balance on what is doable… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/679 "2018-04-11T08:48:08Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > 3 minutes was what CCP proposed. I am fine with that, if as likely, you can reset that warp attempt with a suicide point. Sounds good to me. Keeps bumping in the game, and returns significance to an actual point as well. 3mins is tight to bring another bumper/suicide tackler, but doable if working in groups or have ships/medical clone ready nearby. Can also leave ships empty in space to warp capsule back into, or re-ship out of a ship carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/680 "2018-04-11T08:52:09Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Sounds good to me. > > Keeps bumping in the game, and returns significance to an actual point as well. I would love to know why CCP has not implemented it? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/681 "2018-04-11T08:52:36Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Sounds good to me. > > > > Keeps bumping in the game, and returns significance to an actual point as well. > > I would love to know why CCP has not implemented it? Takes CCP years to implement anything. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/682 "2018-04-11T09:09:54Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > It is balance on what is doable… Reducing EHP would effect non-bumped ships as well. Are you returning to the “ramming” proposal? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/683 "2018-04-11T09:13:20Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Reducing EHP would effect non-bumped ships as well. > > Are you returning to the “ramming” proposal? Balance, because a throw away suicide pointer is not exactly bank breaking or much of an effort so if the timer gets reset it changes little. How you decided I was referring to ramming from that is beyond me., do not go there… OK let me say that I won’t be going there, so if you post something trying to get me involved in that idea I will just ignore it. PS What I mean is fecking obvious, if you don’t get it then it is your problem, seriously mate… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/684 "2018-04-11T09:16:48Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Balance, because a throw away suicide pointer is not exactly bank breaking or much of an effort so if the timer gets reset it changes little. 1. How would reduced EHP change that? 2. What about the EHP of non-bumped ships? 3. I presumed you meant “ramming” cos that would reduce the EHP of a bumped ship, by damaging it, as was what you suggested as reduced EHP. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/685 "2018-04-11T09:23:55Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > OK let me say that I won’t be going there, so if you post something trying to get me involved in that idea I will just ignore it. You suggested lowered EHP, not I. I’m just asking you to explain that. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > PS What I mean is fecking obvious, if you don’t get it then it is your problem, seriously mate… Its not obvious at all. This kind of backpedalling wont work. Explain your suggestion of reduced EHP. ---
**Author:** ![Arra\_Lith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arra_lith/32/50271_2.png) [@Arra\_Lith](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arra_Lith)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/686 "2018-04-11T11:08:21Z")
> [@Cassie\_Helio](#): > > Ganking itself is not an exploit. Bumping itself is not aggression (because it does not necessarily mean a DPS fleet is coming). However, in context and in conjunction it becomes an exploited mechanic. I believe this is why people see ganking as a problem, in context with bumping it seems like a exploit. Perma bumping is really annoying. I remember once I flew almost empty freighter (like 100m in cargo) and some macharial started bumping me demanding ransom. I refused and after like 15 mins trying to warp away I logged out. Next day I was amazed my freighter is still alive and I could continue journey. Well bumping should damage ships - however to avoid other exploit - like moving in a way of freighter so he bumps you and get concorded there should be some exceptions. Easiest would be to use current safety setting - if enabled in case possible collision ship computer change direction to avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/687 "2018-04-11T11:40:33Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > We do need bumping, if we aren’t ready for a target, want to change composition of fleet (more dps, less dps, make cheaper), target went wrong pipe, target saw he got scouted and wants to dock.There is dozens of reason why we need it. I have never seen a better list of reasons for why bumping shouldn’t be a thing to be honest. Not your intention I am sure. So bumping essentially hand-holds the gank fleet to such a degree that they don’t even need to be ready for their target? I’m sorry, but if you are not ready for a target then surely you don’t get to attack that target? I’ve played a lot of games, and in just about all of them, if I am not ready for my target, either they kill me or I miss them and they escape. All these things: We aren’t ready Fleet composition is wrong Target went wrong pipe Target saw he got scouted and wants to dock +dozens of other reasons … are all reasons the gank _should_ fail, no? Reasons the target _should_ get away? Surely all of those situations should not be fixable in your favour by flying a Machariel into the target over and over? Really? 🙄 Wording it like this, the whole thing just seems horribly, stupidly, brokenly, laughably wrong. It’s like being out of ammo in Battlefield 1 but being able to force the enemy player to remain powerless in front of you until you have reloaded. I can’t help feeling this would be considered an exploit in any other game. Cue the ‘this is EVE not other games’ defence force. I love that ganks can happen at any time, the danger needs to be there, the threat needs to be real, you guys need to be able to operate, but not like this. ![Not%20Like%20This](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/0/60e8f2da1653ce8791f272a47fd17357c1a291a4.gif) While there is little more glorious than the sight of a huge gank fleet warping into a System and taking down a Freighter it just makes me sad that such a cheap tactic makes it possible. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/688 "2018-04-11T11:45:43Z")
15m being bumped and you call it being perma-bumped? After experiencing that, what do you think you could have done to prevent that or get yourself out of being bumped? If you can’t think of anything then you deserve to be bumped until you come up with a strategy on how to not be bad. ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/689 "2018-04-11T11:51:47Z")
> [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](#): > > So bumping essentially hand-holds the gank fleet to such a degree that they don’t even need to be ready for their target? I’m sorry, but if you are not ready for a target then surely you don’t get to attack that target? How can we be ready if the targets 1 or 2 jumps out and we only then see him, what ship it is, what his fit is, what ships we need to get the dps to kill it. Just sit in ships and hope we are lucky enough to have the right composition? You obviously have no idea and think everythings so easy. > [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](#): > > We aren’t ready > > Fleet composition is wrong > > Target went wrong pipe > > Target saw he got scouted and wants to dock > > +dozens of other reasons > > … are all reasons the gank should fail, no? > > Reasons the target should get away? Ganks would never happen if we didn’t have time to prepare for them. You cant just jump in any ship and just expect to kill a freighter with its giant health. > [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](#): > > I love that ganks can happen at any time, the danger needs to be there, the threat needs to be real, you guys need to be able to operate, but not like this. Remove bumping and you remove ganking, the danger wouldn’t be there without it. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/690 "2018-04-11T11:52:07Z")
There are other gankers and then there is CODE. The main difference is that the CODE is the one crying on forums about any single suggestion against ganking. They are just about same whiners as carebears that loses retriever to them and visit forum to write some suggestion against ganking. But there is a difference. While the typical carebear starts suggesting some new mechanics or change of existing. Typical CODE. member will not even read a word of any such suggestion and start writing toxic and offensive post, mocking OP and claiming how CODE is superior and OP has no knowdledge of game. Just look at the Australian Excellence posts in this thread. Information value 0. It is sort of true ingame, sure there are normal players in CODE, but majority of them just spread the toxic gameplay, offensive local chat spam, mocking, htfu. Organization wise, most other gankers doesn’t gank 24/7, it is either secondary activity for them, or they are only able to gank in few hours a day since they don’t multibox and without multiboxing gather enough players is quite dfificult. They are also usually locked on 1-3 sectors as they don’t have the resources CODE has. They can’t afford to travel 6 jumps to target and they rarely can afford to take down freighters in 0.8 and above too. CODE has the numbers for all that and so they are using the continuous bumping to catch the biggest fish. Any change to bumping that would lead to inability to hold freighter hostage for long period of time will mess their gameplan. And so they will never agree to any such change. In fact they are automatically posting all the same no matter what would be in post. I am quite certain that if you start a topic with name “Nerf ganking” and into body you type a suggestion that will buff ganking hard, the first post you will see will be from one of the CODE member with the typical crying response how is ganking hard and doesn’t need nerfs. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/691 "2018-04-11T11:52:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > warp timer That was not implemented and dismissed by CCP for whatever reason. So no ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/692 "2018-04-11T11:56:05Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > There are other gankers and then there is CODE. Yeah, we’re the top dogs. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > But there is a difference. While the typical carebear starts suggesting some new mechanics or change of existing. hahaha you’re such a shitter. Go fail to save freighters with your griffin and its 1 ecm drone Your tears, they’re so delicious all pooled up on the uedama floor as you watch us dunk freighters one after the other 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/693 "2018-04-11T11:56:42Z")
thanks for proving my point 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/694 "2018-04-11T11:58:52Z")
whats ur main? which one of those antigankers that follow us around all day are you? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=31) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=33)