# Gankers and freighters, a request for discussion. Not a BJ RANT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236 "2018-03-05T15:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![BAE\_B\_BLUE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bae_b_blue/32/26933_2.png) [@BAE\_B\_BLUE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BAE_B_BLUE)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/822 "2018-04-12T08:02:59Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That is the only issue, but even that will be marginal in my opinion, I have multiple high skilled accounts for reasons. It would probably even favor the ~casual highsec hauler~ over the career ganker as suddendly he has 1 paid and 1 free account vs my 9 paid and 1 free account. 1:5 vs 1:9 ratio yo! ---
**Author:** ![BAE\_B\_BLUE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bae_b_blue/32/26933_2.png) [@BAE\_B\_BLUE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BAE_B_BLUE)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/823 "2018-04-12T08:04:29Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > 2 are needed to prevent that indefinitely, but should it be possible to prevent it indefinitely in the first place? It will always be preventable indefinitely. It’s just a matter of how many accounts you need. Please stop grasping at straws and trying to space laywer everything. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/824 "2018-04-12T08:06:01Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > but should it be possible to prevent it indefinitely in the first place? It should be just as possible in highsec as anywhere else. No more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/825 "2018-04-12T08:08:17Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Ah yes, I forgot the criminal timer for non-wardec HS aggression. > > Is it possible to crash the client, and re-login on another account? You can logout a character with a criminal timer and log into another character on the same account and use it to aggress. You can already use another character on a separate account whether or not you log out, crash or close the client. It is possible to have multiple accounts logged in at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/826 "2018-04-12T08:14:27Z")
> [@BAE\_B\_BLUE](#): > > suddendly he has 1 paid and 1 free account vs my 9 paid and 1 free account. 1:5 vs 1:9 ratio yo! Wouldnt make sense that each Omega account wouldnt be associated with 1 Alpha online simultaneously. It would be 9 Omegas + 9 Alphas, per player, as they have paid for 9 Omegas. * * * Also, even if it wasnt, it would sill be X Omega players with X simultaneous Alphas, vs target with 1 Omega account and 1 Alpha. Thus the more gankers there are, the expontentially greater would be the number of their accounts in space ganking you, as compared to your 1 Omega+ 1 Alpha. This would basically double the amount of ships a gank group can bring, for one Omega each. 6 gank ships run by 6 players, will become 12 gank ships. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/827 "2018-04-12T08:19:46Z")
> [@BAE\_B\_BLUE](#): > > It would probably even favor the ~casual highsec hauler~ over the career ganker as suddendly he has 1 paid and 1 free account vs my 9 paid and 1 free account. 1:5 vs 1:9 ratio yo! Absolutely, Salvos has not realized that only one alpha is allowed on a computer, yet he might get there… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/828 "2018-04-12T08:22:18Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > It should be just as possible in highsec as anywhere else. No more, no less. Then why does the criminal timer exist for HS? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/829 "2018-04-12T08:23:03Z")
Also another thing, if bumping is canned in some way, drop the criminal timer to 5 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/830 "2018-04-12T08:24:58Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Absolutely, Salvos has not realized that only one alpha is allowed on a computer, yet he might get there… I dont think that is going to happen. Its a crap deal for multiple Omega purchasers. Furthermore, even if it did, that would still mean that a gank fleet will basically double its amount of ships per player, vs you on your 1 Omega and 1 alt. 6 gank Omega players, will become 6 gank Omega ships + 6 gank Alpha ships, to a total of 12 ships for 6 gank players. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/831 "2018-04-12T08:25:10Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Then why does the criminal timer exist? Because someone in highsec or lowsec commits an act that generates a criminal timer. A criminal timer isn’t an aggression timer however. There are 2 forms of aggression timer that prevent a ship from disappearing in space if the player logs off: 1. 5 minute timer if aggressed by an NPC 2. 15 minutes timer if aggressed by a player character Nothing about the aggression timer is related to the criminal timer directly. They are 2 different things and all forms of aggression, legal, illegal, GCC generating, non-GCC generating, etc. all create these timers. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/832 "2018-04-12T08:27:59Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Because someone in highsec or lowsec commits an act that generates a criminal timer. Yes, but in HS it carries a CONCORD element. Yet you argue aggression should be the same everywhere. Obviously, that is not the case currently. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/833 "2018-04-12T08:29:01Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I dont think that is going to happen. > > Its a crap deal for multiple Omega purchasers. > > Furthermore, even if it did, that would still mean that a gank fleet will basically double its amount of ships per player, vs you on your 1 Omega and 1 alt. > > 6 gank Omega players, will become 6 gank Omega ships + 6 gank Alpha ships, to a total of 12 ships for 6 gank players. You can only have one Alpha per computer, why should that change? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/834 "2018-04-12T08:31:29Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Yet you argue aggression should be the same everywhere. > > Obviously, that is not the case currently. Read this: [https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers) Criminal and suspect timers are different types of timers under crimewatch. Unfortunately the eve-wiki is gone, so see the different there. Nothing about a suspect, nor criminal timer relates to whether someone disappears from space when they log off. They are different timers. Edit: actually, this link is better > **[Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/introducing-the-new-and-improved-crimewatch)** > > Hi folks. I'm CCP Masterplan from Team Five-0, and I'm here to talk about a significant change to the aggression system in EVE coming along in this winter's expansion. I'm going to cover a bit of history, a discussion of why we're making these... ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/835 "2018-04-12T08:33:58Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You can only have one Alpha per computer, why should that change? You are the one proposing a change to allow flying an Omega AND an Alpha for the same player, simultaneously (which is currently not allowed). The alpha/omega restrictions are NOT tied to computers. They are tied to PLAYERS. The player signed the TOS/EULA, not the computer. Why should an Omega player be able to fly an Alpha simultaneously? And if so, why should a player that pays multiple Omegas, not be able to run one Alpha per each? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/836 "2018-04-12T08:36:35Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Nothing about a suspect, nor criminal timer relates to whether someone disappears from space when they log off. Okidoki. But a warp-out timer does not change any of those other timers either, and the warp-out timer as proposed will work exactly the same way everywhere in space. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/837 "2018-04-12T08:38:13Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > But a warp-out timer does not change any of those other timers either, and the warp-out timer as proposed will work exactly the same way everywhere in space. And so what is the issue here? That’s exactly what I wrote: It should be just as possible in highsec to keep a ship indefinitely in space as anywhere else. No more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/838 "2018-04-12T08:40:10Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > It should be just as possible in highsec to keep a ship indefinitely in space as anywhere else. No more, no less. Fine. Lets table that as agreed. Fortunately, a warp-out timer as proposed would not change any other timer, so thats settled then. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/839 "2018-04-12T08:42:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Lets table that as agreed. Table what? We aren’t a committee here. That’s just stupid. However, on the warp timer, I commented on that way up the thread already: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > As Gadget wrote way up the thread, the best approach, if any change is needed, is to just introduce the time limit to bumping, though CCP seem to have dropped that idea to, for a reason not articulated. > > That is a change that doesn’t impact a whole lot of areas that your proposal does, but even there, there must be a reason CCP hasn’t done it like they orginally indicated they would. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/840 "2018-04-12T08:44:36Z")
The warp-out timer as proposed doesnt affect any other timer. It would apply identically in all sectors of EVE. Bumping a ship indefinitely will still remain possible, everywhere in EVE. Do you have a problem with that, @Scipio_Artelius? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/841 "2018-04-12T08:51:25Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Do you have a problem with that, @Scipio_Artelius? Yes I have a problem with an automatic warp timer applying in all sectors of EVE. Bumping for the purpose of highsec ganking is a minor part of the use of bumping in the game. It is used far more regularly in low, null and jspace, for other forms of pvp. There is no reason to screw up other parts of the game to pander to a small but vocal group of whiners in highsec. As a regular highsec hauler, I do not want the timer introduced either because: 1. challenge in the game is good. We don’t need another one removed and it should be on me to keep myself safe, not on CCP to provide me a get out of bump free card 2. as someone that focuses on successfully delivering for clients, I have a number of people that come direct to me rather than going via public courier contract or the haulers channel. My ability to deliver is a competitive advantage against other haulers. There is no need to even the playing field through safer mechanics. Risk brings opportunity and opportunity provides advantage for those that are prepared. The bump timer rewards the lazy and stupid. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=38) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=40)