# Gankers and freighters, a request for discussion. Not a BJ RANT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236 "2018-03-05T15:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/882 "2018-04-12T10:12:39Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > It doesnt change any sector mechanics. > > Scipio\_Artelius: This is pointless. Ok, it doesn’t change any sector specific mechanics. That doesn’t mean it has no impact in any sector. The whole point of it is to impact highsec bumping. It also impacts lowsec pvp tactics on gates and stations. In this case, it’s an unnecessary nerf to lowsec pvp because of the change it introduces. Whether you are willing to acknowledge that or not doesn’t change the fact that this change nerfs lowsec pvp tactics on gates and stations, where sentry guns are an active part of pvp decision making. And your inability to acknowledge that changes can have other impacts, beyond the specific issue being addressed, is why it is always pointless trying to discuss anything with you. You just won’t even acknowledge simple truths. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The proposed change doesnt help or impair anyone from performing a bump, or the target from avoiding one. That’s not what I wrote. If a lazy freighter pilot can’t avoid getting bumped or can’t escape from a bump, that’s their problem. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/883 "2018-04-12T10:22:08Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Ok, it doesn’t change any sector specific mechanics. Correct. Glad you acknowledge that at last. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > The whole point of it is to impact highsec bumping. No, the whole point is for it to impact bumping, regardless of sector. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > In this case, it’s an unnecessary nerf to lowsec pvp because of the change it introduces. Doesnt nerf LS at all. You can still bump and/or point, just as before. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > where sentry guns are an active part of pvp decision making. Nothing forces anyone to make actions to cause gateguns to fire. Not now, and not post-change. If you do, its your choice. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > You just won’t even acknowledge simple truths. If they were truths, I wouldnt be able to destroy them as easily as I have. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > If a lazy freighter pilot can’t avoid getting bumped or can’t escape from a bump, that’s their problem. The means now, and post-change, to avoid a bump are identical. As to escaping repeated bumps, all the aggressor needs to do, is land a successful point to reset the warp-out timer. If you are too lazy to do that, well, too bad, too sad. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/884 "2018-04-12T10:23:00Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > No, the whole point is for it to impact bumping, regardless of sector. Why does lowsec need this nerf to pvp tactics? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If they were truths, I wouldnt be able to destroy them as easily as I have. Ignorance is just ignorance Salvos. It isn’t destroying arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/885 "2018-04-12T10:26:03Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Why does lowsec need this nerf to pvp tactics? Its not a LS nerf. Its a change to bumping that applies universally wherever bumps occur. Also, lol at calling repeatedly bumping a ship in LS till an idiot opens fire and gets gateguns firing at them as a “pvp tactic”. The gateguns are a PvE entity, not a PvP one. Idiots can still open fire on bumpers, just as before, post-change, if they choose to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/886 "2018-04-12T10:29:59Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its not a LS nerf. Read again. I didn’t say lowsec nerf. The rest of your post is just as idiotic. Whether gate guns are a PVE entity or not, they are an active part of pvp decision making in lowsec. They appear on a tonne of killmails in pvp encounters, because players can and do take advantage of the service they provide in lowsec. Acknowledge it or don’t. At the moment, the best response is from Dracvlad: > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Stop being an ass ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/887 "2018-04-12T10:34:46Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I didn’t say lowsec nerf. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > It is. Read above. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Why does lowsec need this nerf? Now you are just flat out lying. Fking disgusting… > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Whether gate guns are a PVE entity or not, they are an active part of pvp decision making in lowsec. They are a PvE element, as is CONCORD in HS. The proposed change makes no change to any sector mechanics. It effects only bumping, and does so in away that is universal, regardless of sector, and without changing any sector mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/888 "2018-04-12T10:35:35Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Now you are just flat out lying, > > Scipio\_Artelius: Liar. Quote the actual quote you replied to: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/8/28b31830e0f4ba6ee3d4ff1f6fd49c5fc7c9068f.png) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/889 "2018-04-12T10:36:19Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Liar. Quote the actual quote you replied to. The quotes clearly show you claimed this proposed change as a nerf to LS. Own that. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/890 "2018-04-12T10:37:21Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Own that. Hey, it’s right above this post for everyone to see. Why does lowsec need this nerf to pvp tactics? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/891 "2018-04-12T10:38:05Z")
Make up your mind: Is this proposed change a nerf to LS or not? Be very careful how you answer. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/892 "2018-04-12T10:38:40Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Is this proposed change a nerf to LS or not? Why does lowsec need this nerf to pvp tactics? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/893 "2018-04-12T10:39:18Z")
Oh, now you are stuck in a loop. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/894 "2018-04-12T10:41:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Oh, now you are stuck in a loop. Nah. The context of what I have been discussing has been clear right through. That you can’t even acknowledge it just makes you an ass. Situation normal. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/895 "2018-04-12T10:43:02Z")
This proposed change only effects bumping, and does so universally. No sector mechanics, anywhere, are changed. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > That you can’t even acknowledge it just makes you an ass. Yeah, that anger seeping in again. Its not me you should be angry at. Its your own ignorance and failure in argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/896 "2018-04-12T10:46:31Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > No sector mechanic, anywhere, are changed. Oh, stuck in a loop Salvos. That specific sector mechanics don’t individually change, doesn’t mean there are no impacts on tactics used by players because of changes introduced. That has been stated above and explained how. The whole point of this one is to bring about a change in behaviour in highsec. It will also result in a change in behaviour in lowsec, that nerfs pvp tactics on gates and stations, with no reasoning as to why that is even needed. Believe it or dont. It doesn’t matter, since you thankfully don’t work as a game designer for CCP. So in the end, it’s irrelevant what you accept, or table, or agree, or propose. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Yeah, that anger seeping in again. Anger? That’s a pretty low standard for what anger is. No wonder you want more protection in highsec. Here, this might help. I’ll see if I can find the number for you if you like: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/4/b4fa14cd97da989dc9557316d73e4b1e0666fb9d.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/897 "2018-04-12T10:49:15Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Oh, stuck in a loop Salvos. Its a fact. No sector mechanics are changed by this proposed change. There is no loop there. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > doesn’t mean there are no impacts on tactics used by players because of changes introduced. We already ran through those. None of yours gave any cause not to go ahead with the proposed change. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Believe it or dont. It doesn’t matter, since you thankfully don’t work as a game designer for CCP. Neither do you. You are losing this, badly, and revealing your true motivation by the fallacies you chose to apply. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine\_Deer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jasmine_deer/32/206152_2.png) [@Jasmine\_Deer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jasmine_Deer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/898 "2018-04-12T10:49:32Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I have suggested multiple times that CCP allow people with an Omega to also be able to play an Alpha account at the same and I strongly advise them to put that in place. If you leave bumping as is then you have no choice because the casual hisec hauler player is so disadvantaged that he might as well not bother playing. There is really only one counter that matters and that is the ability to have another account to scout the gate. I wonder if being able to login a supporting Alpha account is something casual hisec players are ultimately going to be grateful for. Having to use 2 accounts for me anyway removes some of the character immersion and multitasking characters in 2 windows makes it seem less like an RPG and more a tactical strategy game like Command and Conquer. I get that no one forces you to play with 2 accounts simultaneously and there obvious cases where it is useful (checking for gate camps jumping into low, scout for haulers etc), but as someone who plays the game in a less competitive manner than most of the regular posters on this thread I have to say that the majority of the time I won’t bother to login my second omega account just to have a scout. Opening a second client and manipulating another character is a chore which detracts from my overall enjoyment of the game. You can call it lazy gameplay but I have little interest in multitasking. When I lose a ship, well c’est la vie. From afar, there is an assumption that players will behave rationally. I’m more inclined to think some solo casual hisec players will resent feeling they have to use their free alpha to keep up with everyone else. Also, I might be missing something and correct me if I’m wrong, but is this going to have an effect on 1 v 1 pvp if the standard engagement between 2 casual hisec players meeting in lowsec is going to involve 4 ships ? Standard disclaimer : My opinion only. It counts for little. No, I don’t have any graphs or surveys to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/899 "2018-04-12T10:51:46Z")
Meme posting. The last resort of an idiot and a liar that cant accept when they are wrong, ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/900 "2018-04-12T10:52:10Z")
@Scipio_Artelius Salvos is like that blind guy that keeps thinking Napoleon’s white horse was white when it was not He can’t understand anything anyone will ever say because he literally doesn’t give a shite about it… especially if it’s something he can’t agree with But I guess that’s what happens when CCP decides to release every idiot who got banned from the old forums (and non-paying plebs) ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/901 "2018-04-12T10:52:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > > Oh, stuck in a loop Salvos. > > Its a fact. Thanks for acknowledging that. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=41) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=43)