# Gankers and freighters, a request for discussion. Not a BJ RANT **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236 "2018-03-05T15:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 79
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1635 "2018-04-24T11:13:53Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > 25 mins is a reasonable and supported hardcap duration The only group that counts in terms of support is CCP and they’ve never indicated any sort of support for this. Other then that, it’s still just a very small group, of very loud and dedicated nerds that apparently support this. That doesn’t really make much support at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1636 "2018-04-24T11:14:01Z")
The downtime hardcap is enough ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1637 "2018-04-24T11:15:14Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > The only group that counts in terms of support is CCP and they’ve never indicated any sort of support for this. False. CCP ran a team specific to this purpose, > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Other then that, it’s still just a very small group, of very loud and dedicated nerds that apparently support this. Its a very small, loud dedicated group of nerds that are against it. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1638 "2018-04-24T11:15:27Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Doesn’t matter if it’s not implemented lmao A lot of stuff never gets done or implemented (module tiericide anyone?). Tells nothing about quality of change. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1639 "2018-04-24T11:16:01Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > CCP ran a team specific to this purpose, So you are claiming CCP have indicated support for a 25 minute cap? Rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1640 "2018-04-24T11:18:13Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > So you are claiming Lol. Can you not deal with a 25min hardcap on bumping, Mr.Dishonest? Do you refute the Miniluv report? Do you know better that them? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1641 "2018-04-24T11:19:35Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Can you not deal with a 25min hardcap on bumping, Mr.Dishonest? Doesn’t matter what I can deal with or not. My view is irrelevant. However, rubbish that CCP have supported a 25 minute cap. You are lying. Unfortunately, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1642 "2018-04-24T11:19:44Z")
This thread made more sense when we talked about ag failing all the time every day without a break. At least that has some comedy value. Your stupid idea is just boring Salvos. And it’s all it will do, make everything more boring. It’s the ultimate goal of you anti-content types, to remove every challenge and risk and make EVE the most boring truck and mining simulator there is. Admit it! ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1643 "2018-04-24T11:20:11Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > My view is irrelevant. Indeed. You said it all right there. 25min hardcap is reasonable and supported. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1644 "2018-04-24T11:21:34Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Indeed. > > You said it all right there. However facts are not irrelevant. Like the fact that CCP have never indicated support for a 25 minute cap. That’s very relevant, despite you claiming otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1645 "2018-04-24T11:23:35Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Like the fact that CCP have never indicated support for a 25 minute cap. That’s very relevant, despite you claiming otherwise. Ive never claimed otherwise. CCP investigated bump cap, but team was fired due to staff cuts. Regardless, Miniluv issued a doc that supports 25mins hardcap, and many here have agreed to it as reasonable. Do you deny these facts? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1646 "2018-04-24T11:35:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Ive never claimed otherwise. Yet: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > 25 mins is a reasonable and supported hardcap duration. > > The only group that counts in terms of support is CCP and they’ve never indicated any sort of support for this. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > False. > > CCP ran a team specific to this purpose, The evidence is all there Salvos. People can read. As for the question about Miniluv’s report. I don’t know of any report issued by Miniluv. There is a ganking platform discussion linked above that I’ve read, that is an opinion by 1 player, not the whole group to my knowledge. It argues that ganking is in a good place (pp 1-2) and no bumping change is required. It argues that the 3 minute proposal is bad (p.3-5), including that there isn’t even a problem to be fixed (p.4). It proposes no change (p.6), or as an alternative, a 15 minute timer (p.6). So if there’s some other proposal then like all of them, they only count if CCP adopts one. Until then, we are right where we are, that there isn’t broad support for a 25 minute timer. In relation to the doc reference in this post, it’s this one: [Ganking Platform.pdf - Google Docs](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OLZr3WmL9KlvJ-0j_OoV2OGhOVmBMLkboLifcDP1LeA/edit) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1647 "2018-04-24T11:41:24Z")
From the document: “As I said before, typically the longest MiniLuv keeps a target bumped is 25-30 minutes.” “keep them bumped for ~25 minutes (typical rage-form time) and then perform the final bumps on the target before the DPS fleet warps in.” > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I don’t know of any report issued by Miniluv. Its the one you linked. You dishonest sack of ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1648 "2018-04-24T11:43:54Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You dishonest sack of ■■■■, Don’t make love to me like this Salvos. I’ll begin to like you. From the document, pp 6-7: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/1/3100fb984312a7a7c5c47e399b63754ab867f405.png) Again, the evidence is there for people to read, what was suggested in the document. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1649 "2018-04-24T11:45:17Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Again, the evidence is there for people to read, what was suggested in the document. If you prefer 15mins instead of 25, fine by me. Ok, so the proposal is 15mins now. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1650 "2018-04-24T11:47:40Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If you prefer 15mins instead of 25, fine by me. I’m sure. So far in this thread alone you’ve gone from 3 min, to 10 minutes is inordinately long, to 20 minutes is ridiculous, to 15 minutes, to 25 minutes. You’ve flip-flopped more than a fish out of water. However, that isn’t a bad thing. Willingness to change is good, where it makes sense. But just flip-flopping from one timer to another. I guess now it’ll be that there is wide support for a 15 minutes hard timer, because now that’s the figure you are going with, today at least. It’ll probably be different tomorrow, or maybe even later today. Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1651 "2018-04-24T11:48:51Z")
The doc suggests 15min. So be it then. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1652 "2018-04-24T11:51:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The doc suggests 15min. > > So be it then. To which, as above: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > The only group that counts in terms of support is CCP and they’ve never indicated any sort of support for this. Maybe they will. Maybe they won’t. Doesn’t matter at all until they do. Pick whatever timer you like. It’s irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1653 "2018-04-24T11:52:01Z")
Maybe he will finally settle with a suggestion of a random timer between 3 and 25 minutes? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236/1654 "2018-04-24T11:56:52Z")
> “Suggestion 2: Make the warp out timer 15 minutes, in line with the aggression timer. There’s already a significant amount of counterplay available before this change; with this change, avenues open up, such as alphaing the scramming ship before it can apply its scram, jamming the scramming ship before it can apply its scram, range/scan res damping the scramming ship before it applies this > scram. This keeps that counterplay intact, along with the freighter’s native escape mechanism, in addition to all of the counterplay available to them while not making the job of bumping and ganking the freighters frustratingly difficult.” > [Ganking Platform.pdf - Google Docs](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OLZr3WmL9KlvJ-0j_OoV2OGhOVmBMLkboLifcDP1LeA/edit) Miniluv suggests 15 mins then. This panel largely agreed to 25 mins. I suppose 20mins is the compromise then. Good, glad we got that out of the way. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=78) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gankers-and-freighters-a-request-for-discussion-not-a-bj-rant/61236.md?page=80)