# Ganking and PVP: Numbers in perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852 "2022-07-30T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![JagdWulfe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jagdwulfe/32/344973_2.png) [@JagdWulfe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JagdWulfe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/251 "2022-12-11T03:06:37Z")
We had that it was called Ultima Online LOL ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/252 "2022-12-11T03:08:02Z")
> [@JagdWulfe](#): > > We had that it was called Ultima Online LOL old EVE was more sand boxy nowadays Minecraft no rules anarchy is more hardcore lol ![maxresdefault](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/8/6f89f2cc43fc69cd9660056d0d88854a179104c5.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/253 "2022-12-11T03:19:47Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > Not sure how that changes the point I made. It’s irrelevant if I find the PvE boring or not. It’s relevant because you’re making a broad statement based on your preference. You find it boring but clearly many people enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/254 "2022-12-11T03:35:30Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > This is third consecutive day of failing to meet the given metrics. You have been escalated to level 2 non-conformance. I spent the whole day playing Fallout 4 and didn’t log into Eve at all. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/8/7/287e65a01bf1ef3a79ce2cadfe2bd192070cc06f.jpeg "This means something") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQG5rsCtU2M) ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/255 "2022-12-11T03:36:12Z")
My go-to is GTA 5. That game will never get old… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/256 "2022-12-11T03:38:48Z")
> [@Ariel\_Kryten](#): > > My go-to is GTA 5. That game will never get old… i like tales of maj’eyal love the rogue likes ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/257 "2022-12-11T04:35:19Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I spent the whole day playing Fallout 4 and didn’t log into Eve at all. Thank you for being honest. We have escalated your status to level-3 non-conformist. Be advised that you may be required to pay reparations for your breach of contract if this divergent behavior continues. Your Sand-Box isk/hr PvE quota is severely lacking and this problem must be addressed. ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/258 "2022-12-11T05:27:08Z")
Don’t forget the gankers can create alts and then destroy those alts in PvP to pad their own numbers. Does Zboard differentiate between player accounts using the same computer to destroy their own alts for the purpose of padding? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/259 "2022-12-11T05:42:43Z")
> [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Does Zboard differentiate between player accounts using the same computer to destroy their own alts for the purpose of padding? lol ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/260 "2022-12-11T08:29:08Z")
You hit the nail on the head. 90% of the gankers’ kills are fake kills when they kill their own alt to pad their numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/261 "2022-12-11T12:22:04Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s relevant because you’re making a broad statement based on your preference. You find it boring but clearly many people enjoy it. If you read through what I wrote, then you’ll understand that I don’t think there is a problem with people enjoying the current PvE. However, this is a niche audience. My problem is when people talk about PvE, as if this will bring in the mainstream audience or generally increase the playerbase. Objectively speaking, by comparing EvE’s PvE to other MMO’s PvE aspects, then EvE doesn’t offer much, which is why the PvE have never been able to attract any crowds. The alternatives are just better. It has nothing to do with my preferences. You guys just get so defensive about this, that you can’t just have someone point out some negatives about aspects of the game you enjoy. Again, there is nothing wrong with you enjoying something, just understand that you are a minority and don’t fool yourself thinking that a mainstream crowd would find this activity fun. It’s fine to keep it as is, if EvE is just the niche game it has always been and stop pretending it is going to bring in new players. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/262 "2022-12-11T12:52:19Z")
EVE will never see 100k+ players, no matter what you do. Hell, we probably will never even see 40k+ again… ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/264 "2022-12-11T12:59:39Z")
It just seems to me that what you want is CCP to sideline PvE and focus on PvP. You talk about niche audiences, the audience for forced PvP is clearly as small if not smaller than the audience for PvE. If EVEs PvE is so unattractive, why do so many people engage in it? To me it’s part of a whole package, people get to PvE, they get to PvP, they get to play in the player-driven economy. All of it is important. The broader market does tend towards PvE though so being hyper-focused on PvP over all else seems like a mistake to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/265 "2022-12-11T13:07:39Z")
EVE is first and foremost a PVP game. There’s no getting away from it. It doesn’t matter what type of PVE activity you participate in, there is an element of PVP to it, whether you want it or not… ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/266 "2022-12-11T13:14:50Z")
That really depends on your definition of “PvP”. If you mean “every aspect of EVE involves direct or indirect interaction with other players” then I agree. If you mean “All of EVE is built around shooting other players” then I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/267 "2022-12-11T13:16:46Z")
There is only one definition of PVP. Player Vs Player. It doesn’t necessarily mean getting your ship blown up, but it is a definite possibility every single time you undock to engage in any activity… ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/268 "2022-12-11T13:21:25Z")
Therein lies the problem. You think that PvP should mean that no matter what you are doing, someone can fly up and go “oh hey, you have to stop what you are doing and fight me, whether you’re fit to do it or not”. And that’s why CCP can’t attract anyone from the current MMO market. People have less time for MMOs and a variety of choices in games to play, and playing a game where your enjoyment is subject to someone else’s choice puts most players off. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/269 "2022-12-11T13:23:11Z")
Then they are free to go play those other games that cater to that playstyle. If you cannot be attacked unwillingly, then it’s no longer a PVP game and you might as well be playing a single player game where you can’t be attacked by other players like No Man’s Sky or Elite Dangerous… ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/270 "2022-12-11T13:26:25Z")
Trying to cater to the current generation of “please don’t hurt me” gamers will only serve to dumb down EVE to the point that it is no longer EVE… ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/271 "2022-12-11T13:32:29Z")
As I’ve said many times before, EVE is a niche game. Always has been, always will be. Even at it’s height, with Captains Quarters, Walking In Stations, the Fountain War, etc… we only had 65k players max. Even if CCP made high sec 100% safe and implemented walking in stations, we still wouldn’t hit those numbers again… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=11)