# Ganking and PVP: Numbers in perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852 "2022-07-30T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/381 "2022-12-12T12:35:18Z")
Eh, nobody’s perfect. I vote we double his pay and maybe he can get the rest next time! At any rate, just as a reminder, the original topic was on trying to attach _some_ sort of quantity/extent numbers to the practice of ganking in high sec. With a few sideswipes at topics like where / in what ships does the most common PvP occur, what may or may not encourage more PvP, and some on player retention or economy effects. I doubt it would ever be possible to quantify in any way how much ganking gets _talked about_, although even just in this thread there were some useful observations to be made. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/382 "2022-12-12T13:19:32Z")
Even to quantity how much ganking occurs we’d need CCP data, so it’s pretty much guessing on both sides, which I think is part of the problem. What we can tell though is that from an individual perspective it’s quite easy for a single ganker to affect large numbers of victims. When those victims are high priced ships flown by dumb pilots, great. When they are new players being ganked for no gain, not so great. ---
**Author:** ![Over\_Moderated](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/over_moderated/32/345918_2.png) [@Over\_Moderated](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Over_Moderated)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/383 "2022-12-12T13:31:50Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Also you place way too much importance on KB stats. Why was this post hidden? * * * ---
**Author:** ![Over\_Moderated](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/over_moderated/32/345918_2.png) [@Over\_Moderated](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Over_Moderated)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/384 "2022-12-12T13:48:59Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > yet still left some that definitely are… 😕 This is the way. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/385 "2022-12-12T14:56:01Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > What we can tell though is that from an individual perspective it’s quite easy for a single ganker to affect large numbers of victims. This is fallacious reasoning…or rather the sentiment behind it. If I go out and shoot 1000 player ships, I have shot each ship only once. The fact that I shot 999 other ships has no bearing on the fate of each one. What’s more, who gets to decide how much shooting is too much ? > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > When those victims are high priced ships flown by dumb pilots, great. When they are new players being ganked for no gain, not so great. Macgybo posted a video in which he asserted that 15% of all his ganks were 1 day old noobs. He uses a cargo scanner and only ganks ships with a value over several hundred million. His primary point was that a lot of ‘one day old noobs’ are clearly not one day old. In fact it is arguable that _most_ 1 day old noobs are alts of older players. I was _genuinely_ 1 day old in September 2021. I since created 8 other characters…all of whom were 1 day old at some point. Which means that even if the average player has lets say 6 characters ( 2 accounts ) then by definition there must be 5 times as many fake 1 day old noobs as genuine ones ! The problem is that I can’t see CCP introducing any means of quickly identifying the genuine noobs…especially as being a fake noob is actually part of the gameplay of Eve, for example with being a spy on a corp or for other purposes. A spy will generally want to have a clean employment sheet. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/386 "2022-12-12T15:27:50Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > The fact that I shot 999 other ships has no bearing on the fate of each one. This is toxic behavior. If you were to go out and shoot 1000 people with one bullet each… Well, you know the outcome. PvPers are toxic antisocial psychopaths and should be locked up. And this, right here is proof. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/387 "2022-12-12T16:03:47Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > He uses a cargo scanner and only ganks ships with a value over several hundred million. This is not true. [MacGybo | Kills | Character | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/character/484393809/kills/) As you can see here many of his kills are not that high value. I’m not going to put words in his mouth and neither should you. If @MacGybo wants to have his say he can. I’m sure there are many alts. There are many legitimate new players too though. Of course CCP can’t implement a way of seeing who is a genuine noob, that’s why their job of trying to balance the system is one I don’t envy. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/388 "2022-12-12T16:54:27Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > This is not true. > [MacGybo | Kills | Character | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/character/484393809/kills/) > As you can see here many of his kills are not that high value. > > I’m not going to put words in his mouth and neither should you. If @MacGybo wants to have his say he can. Two things. You’ve posted a link to 4,700+ kills. Which one(s) are you talking about? Some kills are low-sec PVP. They won’t be hundreds of millions of isk. Some will be suspect pilots flying though hi-sec. Every kill has a story. Secondly, I don’t think Altara was putting words in my mouth. They were quoting a video I made. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/389 "2022-12-12T17:26:43Z")
I’m pointing to your kills in general, it’s clear that not all of your ganks are high value. Altara is trying to give the impression that you exclusively gank high value targets and that because some of them are new characters that means that newbies aren’t being ganked. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/390 "2022-12-12T17:31:07Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/a/b/1ab14d54df1334a919fe9cb02bad1dee8fbb7f3f.jpeg "Eve Online: Ganking, Griefing, and Stats Abouts the Pilots I Have Killed") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y11fgnQsY8M) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/391 "2022-12-12T17:42:55Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Altara is trying to give the impression that you exclusively gank high value targets Nope…I was quoting what MacGybo actually said. I have watched most of his videos, where he even explains the rationale behind the costing of which ships he ganks. I do not agree with all MacGybo’s views on ganking, but I do respect him as being one of the more open and honest people in the game. The person constantly trying to convey a false narrative is you. Beliefs should be based on facts…not the other way round. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/392 "2022-12-12T17:54:17Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > it’s clear that not all of your ganks are high value A very relevant point that has to be made, and perhaps repeatedly so… _Context is everything_. You cannot automatically assume that every highsec kill is a ‘gank’. There are all manner of non-gank reasons for such kills. Wardecs, people who are flashy after stealing stuff ( for example loot from a ganked ship or from another ship entirely ), duels, etc, etc. Not every highsec kill is a gank ! ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/393 "2022-12-12T18:00:53Z")
So what percentage of your ganks are below 400m? Because you’re picked for your study only characters with high value cargo, doe that mean you never gank any pilot below that? [Executioner | RomkaSevernyi | Killmail | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105215721/) This kill for example was followed up by sentry guns killing you, suggesting it was a gank. My assumption is that you don’t scan every target and some you just gamble on. Your video even suggests you agree with the notion that there are gankers targeting new players and that you believe that is griefing. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Beliefs should be based on facts… Except your never are! You started with the belief “gankers are not ganking new players” and then you’ve made up “facts” to prove it. You just made up a statistic on 5 in 6 new characters being alts. The implication you’re then pushing with that is that you think 5 in 6 ganks of new character are on alts, which is also not a fact. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You cannot automatically assume that every highsec kill is a ‘gank’. I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/394 "2022-12-12T18:02:37Z")
I wanted the blueprints so I shot the ship. BPCs don’t show up on cargo value when you scan so they’re always a gamble. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/395 "2022-12-12T18:04:04Z")
This might answer some of your questions. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/0/2/d022e9ec1b4dd6f4b7bfed4c8545701c02fd0281.jpeg "Eve Online : What Value Cargo Would It Take For Me To Gank A Ship?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFFsJlxbV10) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/396 "2022-12-12T18:05:50Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You just made up a statistic on 5 in 6 new characters being alts. The implication you’re then pushing with that is that you think 5 in 6 ganks of new character are on alts, which is also not a fact. It is a mathematical fact that if even just one account creates 3 characters over the space of a year, then over that year they will create twice as many ‘false’ one day old noobs as genuine ones. And that is with just one account. There are almost certainly many _more_ false ‘noobs’ than genuine ones. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/397 "2022-12-12T18:06:47Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > There are almost certainly many _more_ false ‘noobs’ than genuine ones. So what? Let me ask you a simple question, are you much better at avoiding ganks now than you were when you were a new player? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/398 "2022-12-12T18:07:43Z")
If you’re not Lucas then you do a very fine impression of him. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/399 "2022-12-12T18:08:26Z")
I’m still not that guy. Are you just trying to get moderators to come in and delete a bunch of posts again? And now that you’ve disrupted the flow of the posts, Altara will use it as an excuse to dodge the questions. So thanks for that. Just when I thought we might make progress. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/400 "2022-12-12T18:10:27Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So what? Oh, your typical ‘irrelevant’ or ‘so what ?’ after _you_ made a claim and then got shown to be wrong. This is the dishonest arguing that got the prior thread closed. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Let me ask you a simple question, are you much better at avoiding ganks now than you were when you were a new player? Yes, and precisely _because_ I was ganked as a new player. I learned the lessons…and have never been ganked since. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=16)