# Ganking and PVP: Numbers in perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852 "2022-07-30T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/494 "2022-12-14T17:37:19Z")
So to summarise, you’ve chosen a measure which only means something to you and used that to judge other people and find them unworthy of being allowed an opinion? You’re not the first one to take that approach, though you probably are the first person to do so while having an unimpressive killboard yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Mindrago\_Aldent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindrago_aldent/32/345434_2.png) [@Mindrago\_Aldent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindrago_Aldent)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/495 "2022-12-14T18:11:10Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > It’s not a question of chest thumping…but that the **real** division here is between those who are actively out there _doing_ stuff in Eve, and a whole bunch of players who _between them_ don’t even have as much as a handful of killboard records in the past 5 years. > > To me that says everything anyone needs to know and the thread can be closed. Most players don’t give a fig about killboards, just you and your ilk trying to boost your own egos. You’re just like old western gun slingers putting a notch on your pistol grips for each kill to show how good you are, but you’re not really. We do stuff, just not what you do, how hard is that to understand? Btw, go read the EvE hand book for new starters, PvP gets 2 mentions and the first one is around page 10? Every other profession is mentioned before PvP, which gets a couple of lines. It shows how much CCP think about PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/499 "2022-12-14T19:11:55Z")
yeah no you can’t speck what so ever about pvp ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/500 "2022-12-14T19:23:12Z")
Well I can assure you I have undocked so there’s that misunderstanding cleared up. If you feel my opinion is unworthy, you can feel free to ignore it. I tend to judge peoples opinions by the substance of those opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/501 "2022-12-14T19:28:17Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Well I can assure you I have undocked And in the past 3 years you have not lost a single ship…despite your attestation that you play AFK ? So if you do undock regularly…is that not essentially an admission that your PvE is _way_ too easy ? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/502 "2022-12-14T19:45:31Z")
Clearly not on this character. When did I say I play AFK? Have you got anything to say that is on topic? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/503 "2022-12-14T19:57:22Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > . When did I say I play AFK? Lol…you did so only a week or so ago. Maybe you’ve gotten so twisted up in your lies that you’ve forgotten your own posts. I mean you quite openly stated that you watch Netflix while supposedly playing Eve. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Have you got anything to say that is on topic? Since when was pointing out that a commentor has not lost a ship in 3 years not relevant to a thread on numbers of ships destroyed ? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/504 "2022-12-14T20:13:43Z")
You’re mistaking me for someone else. Your opinion on my killboard is not relevant to a discussion on ganking. I won’t be responding to any more comments on it. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/505 "2022-12-14T21:35:55Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Lol… Obvious alts are obvious, no matter how much it may be painted as otherwise. He’s not fooling anyone and it’s best to put them on the ignore list and only interact with the “main.” Otherwise you are just feeding into the devious antisocial behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/506 "2022-12-15T01:19:14Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You’re mistaking me for someone else. Nope. You clearly stated you watch Netflix while supposedly playing Eve. > [@\[Split Topic\] - Ganking](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/split-topic-ganking/386990/105): > > I mainly do PvP, so I do faction warfare for example and just put my overview and local on the right of my left monitor and watch Netflix on the right monitor, then most of the time I get 15-20 minutes before I have to press another button. I can see movement in the overview or local in my peripherals. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Your opinion on my killboard is not relevant to a discussion on ganking You don’t _have_ a killboard for over 3 years. That is totally utterly relevant to any discussion of the ‘I mainly do PvP’ that you claim to do. I just find it odd, _and entirely relevant_, that an entire side in this debate is being championed by half a dozen people none of whom have any killboard for 3 years or more. There’s no evidence any of you even undock…yet you all profess to be somehow experts on the game. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/507 "2022-12-15T01:24:18Z")
Most people are making snowmen at this time of year. But it looks like you only have straw to work with. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/508 "2022-12-15T01:50:04Z")
_finger-guns with a wink and a click of the tongue_ ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/509 "2022-12-15T09:14:21Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Nope. You clearly stated you watch Netflix while supposedly playing Eve. That’s not me… ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/510 "2022-12-15T17:19:18Z")
They’re actually encouraging new player ganking by setting harder and harder restrictions making them damn-near our only possible target. Shooting for profit is basically dead unless you’re hacking like Ivicek. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/511 "2022-12-15T17:46:27Z")
Yeah, the current changes haven’t done what CCP are aiming for them to do. Though they haven’t actually made it less profitable to gank freighters with their recent changes and there are still triple bulkhead freighters dying. I think they were hoping people would try to avoid being -10 and not waste sec status loss on pointless kills, but that’s not the outcome. I do still think the changes are good changes though as they fix other surrounding issues, like alpha accounts being used for temporary gankers and that sec status really didn’t affect a whole lot. I just think they need to find a better way to discourage new player ganking while encouraging profitable ganks. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/512 "2022-12-15T18:21:57Z")
Freighters dying =/= profit. Profitable ganking pays subs. I’ve been watching the killboards and none of these guys are turning a profit. Hell they’ll be lucky to break even. They’re doing it because it’s fun to them or they want Eve to burn. Alpha ganking, again, was never a problem please quit bringing this up, it’s irrelevant. CCP literally only mentions it because y’all cry about it (even though it basically never happens). Just more of the same lip service. Ganking didn’t and doesn’t need a nerf. We’ve been getting nothing but repeated nerfs for a decade. If they want us shooting more expensive stuff they’re going to have to buff the playstyle. More nerfs will just lead to more spiteful gameplay from the few that remain. It needs to be fun to shoot for profit again, that’s the only thing that will fix the playstyle and why basically all the ganking is for fun at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Mindrago\_Aldent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindrago_aldent/32/345434_2.png) [@Mindrago\_Aldent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindrago_Aldent)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/513 "2022-12-15T18:33:13Z")
Lol…_yet another one_ who has zero killboard record…in over 5 years. And if you are telling me you’ve never lost a ship to PvE in all that time then you are also saying PvE is way too easy. But then again…that’s why you guys cant cope with PvP and want to fill Eve with easy to kill belt rats. It just astonishes me that again and again I look at the killboard of you anti PvP people and again and again the killboard just stops years ago…with zero evidence any of you guys having ever undocked or played the game since. I’ve lost lots of ships in my years here, in all spaces, HS, LS NULL, WH etc. I’m not anti PvP as such, just anti bullying. As I said, killboards mean absolutely nothing to me, I’ll ask again. What part of that don’t you understand? I have kills, and losses. It’s not my problem you can’t see them on your favourite notice boards. Lol in one night I lost 2 or 3 Rattlesnakes ratting after falling asleep after a few too many beers. Is that on your killboards? I don’t care, nor do I care about the Asteros kill in Null. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/514 "2022-12-15T18:43:52Z")
Sure, but when triple bulkhead freighters are still dying to ~400m of gankers, that is profit, and that’s the low end of freighter ganks. Alpha ganking wasn’t a problem in terms of fleets of alphas controlled by one person, but the ability to train an alpha for free in the background then just swap to a new alpha when positive sec status was needed, that was a problem. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Ganking didn’t and doesn’t need a nerf. In my opinion it does. But I appreciate you hold a different view. > [@Bladewise](#): > > We’ve been getting nothing but repeated nerfs for a decade. This isn’t true. There have been nerfs and buffs just like every other playstyle. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/515 "2022-12-15T20:47:36Z")
😂 🤣 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/516 "2022-12-15T22:06:29Z")
I’m sorry but it’s just not a profit. Nobody is going to pay $800 a month for 40 subs just to gank freighters. Profit would be paying all 40 of those subs and having isk left over which I know for a fact isn’t happening. These freighter gank fleets are only possible because of guys like Hawk with 20 accounts that can afford to buy subs in bulk to take advantage of CCP Plex deals. If it weren’t for folks like Hawk freighter ganking would be completely dead and it’s already to the point where they barely break even every month (again, you can’t argue with this, I talk to these folks in discord all the time. I’m hearing it straight from the source). There has been 2 buffs to ganking in 10 years (and countless nerfs) destroyer rework and citadels but the citadels have been taken away and ship hulls have been made way tankier. So yes, FACTUALLY, ganking has received repeated nerfs. So much so that the only two buffs we’ve gotten IN AN ENTIRE DECADE were removed also. You’re just choosing to believe whatever lines up with your bias. Your “opinion” can’t contradict fact. That’s a delusion and trying to push that delusion on others is called gaslighting. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=19) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=21)