# Ganking and PVP: Numbers in perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852 "2022-07-30T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/517 "2022-12-15T22:28:49Z")
I really have to laugh at the mindset that calls HS farmers “entitled whiny weak carebears”, then turns around and expects the game to hand them a steady stream of profit **stolen from other players** in order to Plex the accounts they use for the stealing. ‘Entitled’ doesn’t begin to cover it. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/518 "2022-12-15T22:34:00Z")
Hand it to us? Not in the slightest. You have no clue the amount of effort these folks put into their setups. Furthermore, I would be perfectly fine with being able to pop a freighter with 1 account. I’d pay my sub then, barring this bad idea though what do you expect? If it costs $800 a month for a ganking setup that won’t pay for itself then ganking will cease to exist. Do you expect miners to pay all their subs with cash too? Multibox 10 hulks for what? To make less isk than you’re spending on subs? No, that would be stupid. The same goes for ganking. It has to be effective enough to at least break even or nobody would do it and it’s barely breaking even as it stands. Any more nerfs and it’s dead. But you know this because you are the entitled carebear that chooses to join a PvP game and ■■■■■ that you have to PvP. Like seriously, why wouldn’t you play one of the thousands of other MMOs marketed and balanced specifically for your playstyle? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/519 "2022-12-15T22:45:05Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > Nobody is going to pay $800 a month for 40 subs just to gank freighters. Profit would be paying all 40 of those subs and having isk left over which I know for a fact isn’t happening. Since when did profit require you to be able to sub the account with the activity then have additional profit left over? You can kill a ship filled with loot for less than half of the value of that loot. That’s profit. I’m not going to get into an argument about specific buffs and nerfs because it never goes anywhere, but in all previous discussions gankers consider anything that has any conceivable negative impact on ganking a nerf to ganking, but only consider it a buff if it actually says “this is to buff ganking” in the patch notes. I have no time for gankers who fall abut playing the martyr. Ganking is treated no worse than any other activity in the game. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Do you expect miners to pay all their subs with cash too? Multibox 10 hulks for what? I don’t think a highsec miner could sub their accounts without having to play 10+ hours a day. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/520 "2022-12-15T22:45:21Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > stolen from other players but but … if it wasn’t for all the stealing how I’m supposed to play? I’m not made of money you know … 😭 ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/521 "2022-12-15T22:49:51Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I’m not going to get into an argument About something you do not participate in and thus have no real knowledge of. And you’re right, it wouldn’t be an argument, it would be you trying to gaslight everyone into believing the story that best suits your bias, and me trying to educate you on how it all ACTUALLY plays out. Just stop posting about it. It’s okay, we already know you don’t know what you’re talking about. Please leave the PvP discussions to the PvP players. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/522 "2022-12-15T22:49:55Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > If it costs $800 a month for a ganking setup that won’t pay for itself then ganking will cease to exist. Seriously? No profit? Can’t pay for itself? Well, let’s take a look at the last 24 hours or so: > **[Alura Jenson | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/96133567/)** > > Alura Jenson: 126 ships destroyed and 139 ships lost. Looks pretty profitable, not a very “complicated setup”. > **[Occator | McDoogle DeVine | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105401852/)** > > McDoogle DeVine (Stellar Fleets) lost their Occator in Suroken (The Citadel). Final Blow by Carl Litchfield (New Order Mining Authority) flying in a Tornado. Total Value: 3,449,114,242.56 ISK Hmm, decent little profit here, straightforward easy gank. > **[Occator | Mother Dragon | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105403304/)** > > Mother Dragon (Lion's Leigon) lost their Occator in Suroken (The Citadel). Final Blow by Wiliam Aideron (Dolphin Noises) flying in a Tornado. Total Value: 2,729,677,749.44 ISK And gosh, just an hour later and they can do it again! > **[Impel | Avi Visteen | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105398488/)** > > Avi Visteen (Exit-Strategy) lost their Impel in Anttiri (The Citadel). Final Blow by Lars Carlsen (New Order Mining Authority) flying in a Tornado. Total Value: 4,067,083,982.69 ISK Hey they’re on a roll! > **[Tayra | Caine 607 | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105395435/)** > > Caine 607 (Caldari Provisions) lost their Tayra in Gheth (Devoid). Final Blow by Snoop (Paper Dragons) flying in a Caracal. Total Value: 1,393,140,107.10 ISK Decent drop for pretty cheap. > **[Bestower | LightTrader | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105386077/)** > > LightTrader (Graystone Enterprises) lost their Bestower in Sivala (The Citadel) Total Value: 1,032,167,616.06 ISK I’d call that a decent profit. > **[Bustard | Big McHuge | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/105384989/)** > > Big McHuge (Goosefleet) lost their Bustard in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Alexandrina lex (Lexan's) flying in a Tornado. Total Value: 3,178,300,517.31 ISK Not bad, not bad at all… And that’s not even half of it. So for the “complicated setup” of 3-5 Tornadoes and a loot-scooper, gankers are raking in billions in just a few hours. OMG, the _feels_ I have for these poor, desperate starving gankers! > [@Bladewise](#): > > Do you expect miners to pay all their subs with cash too? Mostly, I expect people to be self-sufficient. And honestly, not impressed with the crying gankers sobbing their hearts out because they can’t steal their Plexed accounts in a few hours from someone else who put in the real effort. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/523 "2022-12-15T22:52:15Z")
According to you. You don’t get to decide who is allowed to have an opinion or state facts here. It’s not “gaslighting” just because someone says something you don’t agree with. It’s entirely possible (and in many cases highly likely) that you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/524 "2022-12-15T22:53:40Z")
It’s not that I don’t agree with it, it’s that you’re talking about my friends like their your friends and lying about their experiences like they’re your own. They’re not, and you have no clue what you’re talking about. Nearly everything you post is straight out lies. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/525 "2022-12-15T22:59:27Z")
I’m not lying about them. I’m saying that it’s demonstrably possible to gank profitably, even against the most heavily tanked freighters. You’re then adding on omega costs and claiming it’s not. As if any mechanic in the game is balanced against how much it costs to plex an account. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/526 "2022-12-15T23:44:37Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > it’s demonstrably possible to gank profitably It’s demonstrably possible to do anything profitably, especially when you cherrypick examples without context or direct knowledge. The real issue is whether people are having fun, as this is a game, and the declining player count speaks for itself. Why are people not having fun? Over the years, CCP has increasingly removed PvP content, which sore loser whiner crybabies frame as “griefing”. PvP fun (“griefing”) was the reason EvE originally became popular, and CCP’s changes have created a boring game which few people want to play. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/527 "2022-12-15T23:58:11Z")
Sorry, I looked everywhere but couldn’t find my tiny violin. I too engage in PvP, and they haven’t really nerfed any content I’m involved in. They pretty brutally nerfed a lot of PvE content across the board and that made some fitting choices less financially viable for a bit, but other than that it’s still very much the same as it’s always been and still fun for me. So maybe the problem is with CCP nerfing lazy content rather than with PvP overall being nerfed. As you guys a fond of saying though, if you aren’t enjoying it there are always other games to play. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/528 "2022-12-15T23:58:43Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I too engage in PvP Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/529 "2022-12-15T23:59:34Z")
Pass. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/530 "2022-12-16T00:00:09Z")
You don’t do PvP, you only pretend. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > they haven’t nerfed any content I’m involved in. That’s because you aren’t involved in content. All you do is spam the forums, until people block you, and then you return with a new sockpuppet. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/531 "2022-12-16T00:17:34Z")
Tinfoil hattery again. Have you got anything constructive and on topic to add? We both know that ganking for profit is still viable and ganking still seems to be fun enough for most gankers to keep claiming that the changes have had no effect on them, so I’m not sure why you feel it necessary to insult me. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/533 "2022-12-16T00:21:20Z")
My forum post about Scot was immediately flagged to death with no comment about “who is Scot?” Which was hilarious lazy op sec. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/534 "2022-12-16T00:23:33Z")
I think that you keep accusing me of being someone I’m not. Since you refuse to actually stay on topic though I’m going to block you. Why is it every ganker seems to think that the constructive way to approach ganking nerfs is to insult anyone with a different opinion to their own? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/536 "2022-12-16T00:54:47Z")
For a thread that’s supposed to be “numbers in perspective” it’s certainly full of more emotion than numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/537 "2022-12-16T01:02:02Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Oh, did it upset you to realize we know you are a sockpuppet? We’ve known it since the first post. CCP really needs to implement a “verified” status and prevent alt accounts. This is getting ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/538 "2022-12-16T01:07:31Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > CCP really needs to implement a “verified” status and prevent alt accounts you have to pay me 8 dollars for verified account ![images](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/f/3/1f3c15668d578f9a96bdfe77adc673cb552b03f7.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=22)