# Ganking and PVP: Numbers in perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852 "2022-07-30T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/540 "2022-12-16T01:27:52Z")
Oh look. Abusing the flagging system again. You know you’ve shined a light on the truth when the cockroaches scurry as fast as they can to shut it down. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/541 "2022-12-16T01:42:19Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I really have to laugh at the mindset that calls HS farmers “entitled whiny weak carebears”, then turns around and expects the game to hand them a steady stream of profit **stolen from other players** in order to Plex the accounts they use for the stealing. You mean all those Alpha accounts stealing the ore that I pay for in the first place ? ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/542 "2022-12-16T01:42:47Z")
@CCP_Swift donno if you’re the right person to tag but you’re the last CCP to post so I’m tagging you. Could yall please look into this mess? We’re not trolling, it’s literally these same sock puppet alts every topic on ganking spewing literal lies about everything. It derails the conversation and makes having any sort of constructive conversation impossible. Could you PLEASE start being stricter on this sort of mess? I know it isn’t as obvious to you guys because you don’t actually play the game very much but it is very obvious to those of us that do that Elizabet and the like (xx, lucas, the notanalt guy) are all sockpuppet alts with no purpose other than to lie, gaslight, and derail every ganking topic to ever be posted. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/543 "2022-12-16T01:45:50Z")
I second this. The sock puppet alt accounts have to stop. They are used for the sole purpose of derailing, gaslighting, causing contention, many going as far as personal attacks because the main user isn’t afraid of any sort of repercussions happening to them. So they continue to churn out alt after alt, cause as much trouble as possible, pull the victimized card when they are finally called out by the community, then fade into obscurity and the main user just rolls another alt and starts it all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/544 "2022-12-16T01:50:03Z")
> [@Mindrago\_Aldent](#): > > As I said, killboards mean absolutely nothing to me I could not care less who has killed who. The point is that a killboard at least shows a person _undocked_ now and then. Thus I stand by my comment that half a dozen of the main anti PvP folks here have no killboard record whatever in 3 years or more…which is hardly the level of undocking required to come on here and claim expertise on PvP ! Also…it would seem not one of you anti gankers have actually _been_ ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/545 "2022-12-16T01:52:05Z")
Just as a reality check, since you seem kind of hung up on this… can you quote any “anti PvP” folks in the thread who are ‘claiming expertise’ on PvP? And on another topic… it takes two (or more) to derail a thread. If anyone feels they’re being ‘gaslit’ or insulted, just flag the post, don’t reply to it, and move on. That’s what the flagging system is for. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/546 "2022-12-16T01:59:07Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > @CCP_Swift donno if you’re the right person to tag but you’re the last CCP to post so I’m tagging you. Could yall please look into this mess? We’re not trolling, it’s literally these same sock puppet alts every topic on ganking spewing literal lies about everything. This is a very distorted version of reality. Anyone who says anything that isn’t 100% in favour of ganking gets accused of being a “sock puppet” and personally attacked, insulted and trolled by the same group of gankers. Every time. And now you’re pretending you’re some innocent victim. Just scroll up through the posts. Multiple people here have tried to stay and topic and had people like yourself, Ax’l, Io, Altara and others attack them personally. Calling people sock puppets, accusing them of gaslighting, claiming they don’t PvP, trying to shame based on killboard stats, and other such attacks, those are not “constructive” arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/547 "2022-12-16T02:04:45Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > The sock puppet alt accounts have to stop. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/548 "2022-12-16T02:07:10Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > can you quote any “anti PvP” folks in the thread who are ‘claiming expertise’ on PvP? … > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I too engage in PvP, ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/549 "2022-12-16T02:07:29Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > If anyone feels they’re being ‘gaslit’ or insulted I do. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/550 "2022-12-16T02:07:49Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Nope. I suppose there is a kind of ironic entertainment derived from it all. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/551 "2022-12-16T02:14:24Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > those are not “constructive” arguments. The truth is always constructive. The idea of the thread _is_ to get to the truth…isn’t it ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/552 "2022-12-16T02:21:28Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > claiming they don’t PvP, trying to shame based on killboard stats You can’t claim to PvP and simultaneously have zero killboard in over 3 years. Nothing to do with ‘shame’…simply an observation that _on a thread with PvP in the title_…there’s little evidence some have even undocked in their respective accounts in years. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/553 "2022-12-16T02:28:41Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You can’t claim to PvP and simultaneously have zero killboard in over 3 years. They are caught in a trap now. If they say they use an alt to pvp (and thus have experience) then they lose all credibility that they themselves are not a sock puppet alt account for the purpose of posting on the forums. My guess is they will abuse the flagging system to hide this post and pretend no one noticed. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/554 "2022-12-16T02:30:00Z")
![images](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/8/3/e832b8df0a5f83902a8db86e4ce4ed7ddbd37842.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/555 "2022-12-16T02:50:35Z")
maybe he means ‘market pvp’ . those .01 isk’ers can be ruthless … ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/556 "2022-12-16T02:55:12Z")
Debate over whether ganking is “fair” or “cruel”, balanced or imbalanced, is based upon an understanding of game mechanics and the current state of gameplay. An outsider, who doesn’t play the game, cannot understand. A bitter loser, who quit the game years ago, cannot comprehend the situation today. It doesn’t matter how they try to dress their opinion up as logical, they simply cannot base their argument upon experience. The only people who have a valid opinion are those who currently play the game (and we should not presume every player has understanding). If you do not have a killboard, you cannot understand the game. Even if you are a miner, you must have loss to gain experience. If someone has no killboard, it is proof they do not understand the game. If they claim to have a secret mystery main, they are lying. They are not hiding their main, but rather the fact that there is no main. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/557 "2022-12-16T02:59:38Z")
Eh, well, apparently in the opinion of a prolific and professional ganker, merely engaging in PvP at all is sufficient to establish expertise in it. I’ll have to keep that in mind the next time some ganker is trying to tell me how thoroughly they understand the entire game and how “complicated” their “setup” is because they shot some unarmed targets in high-sec. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/558 "2022-12-16T03:07:29Z")
The state of the game seems to be such that the only real PvP that can still happen, happens on the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/559 "2022-12-16T03:39:15Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I’ll have to keep that in mind the next time some ganker is trying to tell me how thoroughly they understand the entire game and how “complicated” their “setup” is because they shot some unarmed targets in high-sec. Ganking is harder than most who have not done it imagine it to be. The hardest part is not so much the technicality of it…but the fact that your colleagues are _relying_ on you to lock and hit and you _have_ to get it right. Especially for a new ganker, one does not want to let the team down. So it is quite a pressure environment and personally my heart is pounding as I go in. So it is not all some casual, laid back, bunch of people chuckling psychopathically about easy kills. There’s few other activities in Eve where you literally can’t afford to miss and have to get everything correct all within seconds…and an entire team utterly relies on you doing so. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=21) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=23)