# Ganking and PVP: Numbers in perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852 "2022-07-30T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/231 "2022-12-10T21:06:47Z")
one of the magics of EVE to me was the lack of direction thats why it was called a sandbox kids that don’t have any imagination usually don’t like the sandbox for example i like Minecraft much more than some same old same old heroes journey ■■■■ script pretending to be epic , soooooo boring ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/232 "2022-12-10T21:09:43Z")
Well, I’d guess that’s probably true of many players who stuck with EVE. But it appears not enough are sticking. It’s one thing to have a themepark MMO, with progression on rails from Mission A to B to C. It’s another thing to have no direction at all, particularly in an unfamiliar setting with little for new players to attach to. EVE would benefit from adding a little more focus, direction, and expectation-setting to the early player experience, and wouldn’t have to lose the sandbox aspect at all. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/233 "2022-12-10T21:12:29Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > EVE would benefit from adding a little more focus, direction, and expectation-setting to the early player experience, yah but that is what CCP is doing i cant deny is popular ( triglavian invasion and ■■■■) but usually it involves NPCs and guided content i find it bad and boring edit: instead of adding direction i agree with you > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > videos showing Star-Wars style space those dam huge battle videos … EVE have huge battles , no other game have bigger but even wen the stupid new players get to go to the dam battles they say, its slow , its boring ■■■■■■■■■■■■ , go play other game that have better , ooooo , it doesn’t exist … oooooo CCP needs do OWN the game like EVE is a sandbox RPG full of PVP NOT a space fighter simulator ![PlasticCarefreeBuckeyebutterfly-size_restricted](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/0/1/001ab23d50602ed85e1b52dea7466b37e735b731.gif) something like that 😛 but them a guy comes and murder you after you got 1000 lumber pieces ---
**Author:** ![Firnikkar\_Firn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/firnikkar_firn/32/344253_2.png) [@Firnikkar\_Firn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Firnikkar_Firn)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/234 "2022-12-10T21:25:59Z")
only people with no imagination decide to keep people with too much imagination in a computer simulation… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/235 "2022-12-10T21:32:37Z")
i didn’t got your point … can you explain it to me? ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/236 "2022-12-10T21:36:03Z")
You people still whining about getting killed in a PVP game? ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/237 "2022-12-10T22:52:51Z")
> [@TiberianSun371AlexW](#): > > There are bigger problems with retention than suicide ganking. Yes, the PvE is boring as ■■■■! CCP don’t want to talk about it, because such an overhaul would require a MASSIVE amount of work. Vets crying on the forum for more PvE focus don’t talk about it, because they have become accustomed to enjoy watching paint dry. Fundamental changes that would change their paint watching is not something they want. The reality is, that new players starts with the tutorial and career agents and quickly figure out that watching red crosses disappear from a table at a snails pace, just isn’t that fun to do. This is their first impression of the game… and we are wondering why the retention rates are so low \*_facepalm\*_ ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/238 "2022-12-10T23:07:52Z")
It’s not our fault that new players have the attention span of a Pomeranian on crack… ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/239 "2022-12-10T23:10:18Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > new players starts with the tutorial and career agents You must not hang out in Rookie Help very often. Most new players simply skip the tutorial, don’t even know there are career agents, go straight to begging for help, then quit when they can’t figure it out… ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/240 "2022-12-10T23:23:15Z")
> [@Ariel\_Kryten](#): > > It’s not our fault that new players have the attention span of a Pomeranian on crack… I don’t mind that you need to be on the spectrum to enjoy the PvE content or that CCP is targeting this demographic. But let’s not act all surprised that the game only attracts a niche audience, or think that the current PvE content is what’s going to bring in new players. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/241 "2022-12-10T23:25:16Z")
That has been the case since day 1. EVE has always been a niche game and has never had a massive player base. Those other types of players can go enjoy Roblox or Fortnite, because EVE ain’t it… ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/242 "2022-12-10T23:30:35Z")
> [@Ariel\_Kryten](#): > > That has been the case since day 1. EVE has always been a niche game and has never had a massive player base. Yes, I’m not sure where I implied that this somehow should change. All I’m saying is that the current PvE is a huge sinner when it comes to retention rates. Since people always talk so much about attracting new players, then maybe don’t promote the parts that actively turn people away. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/243 "2022-12-10T23:32:24Z")
It didn’t turn me away. I’ve been playing EVE for coming up on 17 years now, and all I do is run missions, mine, PI, and manufacturing, with the occasional dabble in exploration and escalations. But I have a thousand times more patience than your average Millennial or Gen Z gamer. To each his own… ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/244 "2022-12-10T23:35:04Z")
Yes, and there is no problem with you enjoying a niche activity. But let’s not pretend that the PvE is what’s going to bring in the mainstream audience. Let’s just call it what it is and stop pretending. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/245 "2022-12-11T01:04:51Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > Yes, the PvE is boring as ■■■■! It’s boring _to you_. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/246 "2022-12-11T01:08:41Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s boring _to you_. Not sure how that changes the point I made. It’s irrelevant if I find the PvE boring or not. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/247 "2022-12-11T02:12:53Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > one of the magics of EVE to me was the lack of direction > thats why it was called a sandbox > kids that don’t have any imagination usually don’t like the sandbox A micromanaged sandbox ( which is essentially what Eve has become ) is not a sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![Ariel\_Kryten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ariel_kryten/32/345184_2.png) [@Ariel\_Kryten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ariel_Kryten)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/248 "2022-12-11T02:36:57Z")
I can see where some level of micromanagement is necessary. After all, you can’t exactly let the inmates run the asylum… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/249 "2022-12-11T03:04:25Z")
> [@Ariel\_Kryten](#): > > I can see where some level of micromanagement is necessary. After all, you can’t exactly let the inmates run the asylum… yes you can its fun ![Captura de Tela 2022-12-11 às 00.04.56](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/0/1/9012379deff722c0a4596de3585c3eb0a536b673.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852/250 "2022-12-11T03:05:00Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > A micromanaged sandbox ( which is essentially what Eve has become ) is not a sandbox. You haven’t met your isk quota for the day. This is third consecutive day of failing to meet the given metrics. You have been escalated to level 2 non-conformance. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-and-pvp-numbers-in-perspective/371852.md?page=10)