# Ganking in highsec without wardec and not getting Concorded **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2020, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618 "2020-07-13T11:24:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/41 "2020-07-20T08:33:12Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > Buff JF’s EHP to the point that they have a fighting chance against a talo’s gang. Add X warp strength / skill level so they have a chance to jump out once talo’s start to pop. There are numerous options to make it a fair game Then they bring 2 more Talos. Your idea does nothing to actually make a difference in practice. To make it actually interesting and a fighting chance you have to increase the timer to lower the number of talos they bring. Lower numbers and more time actually make it possible for you to fight back. There are other changes that can be done alongside this to make it even more interesting and uncertain for both sides, but the core principle is that the longer there is to react, and the lower the ganker numbers, the more chance to do something. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/42 "2020-07-20T09:24:57Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > People here act like it’s ridiculous that someone is complaining about a high-sec gank. No, we don’t “act like” it’s ridiculous. It **is** ridiculous. Your post **is** ridiculous… > [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > The mechanic is broke. Which mechanic? There is no suicide ganking mechanic other than CONCORD, which is unstoppable and unavoidable. Are you asking for CONCORD to be removed or what? > [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > isn’t it all about finding the right balance to Risk vs Reward? And where does the ganker reward come from? Sure it doesn’t come from some NPC rats, does it? So why don’t you tell that to the **players** that provide such rewards to the gankers? ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/43 "2020-07-20T09:53:09Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > What about the people who are getting popped before they can even load grid on the undock? That shouldn’t happen - there is an invulnerability timer for a reason. This would be one of the few cases where I would support a reimbursement by CCP for a PvP loss. > [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > This isn’t true. Everyone says it’s 100% safe but the reality is that it isn’t. Got an insta-lock Webber? That’s great but if they’ve got an insta-lock frigate it comes down to nano-seconds of who clicked first. If it ends up being them then it’s over. Also what your proposing is a system where someone can be killed even if they do everything 100% perfectly? That doesn’t seem right. They can’t even shoot back… Of course no one should be 100% safe even if they do everything perfectly, at least while they are generating or moving resources in this game. That is poor game design. If you are perfectly safe, you can carry infinite value with no thought or trade-off breaking the core idea of this game. Someone should always be able to explode you, if they are willing to pay the costs. An insta-lock point still requires ~2s to lock you. Ok, it is a race to click your 100%-guaranteed-escape-PvP button before being tackled, but unless you are on some small South Pacific island with a 1500ms ping time, you have such an advantage you can’t lose. I agree, Jump Freighters should be quite safe. Moving stuff through dangerous space is their _raison d’etre_. But they already are. If some enterprising player or group is able to catch a pilot napping, and burn a couple billion in ships to take a shot at killing it, then they have earned the kill. Kudos to them for enforcing the risk that is suppose to be there everywhere in space and teaching the lazy/greedy/bad jump freighter pilot a lesson. Just because freighters can’t fit guns doesn’t mean that the deck isn’t completely, and border-line unfairly, stacked against the hunters of jump freighters. The only real risk of losing them is either negligent inattention or server instability, combined with the bad luck of being in the wrong place with the 1 or 2 players that even try to attack them. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/44 "2020-07-20T10:37:17Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > This isn’t true. Everyone says it’s 100% safe but the reality is that it isn’t. Got an insta-lock Webber? That’s great but if they’ve got an insta-lock frigate it comes down to nano-seconds of who clicked first. If it ends up being them then it’s over. There is a reason for the rapid lights on my webber. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/45 "2020-07-20T11:03:19Z")
So many replies to obvious troll. 🤦‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Kat\_Aisele](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kat_aisele/32/513450_2.png) [@Kat\_Aisele](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kat_Aisele)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/46 "2020-07-20T17:47:02Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > teaching the lazy/greedy/bad jump freighter pilot a lesson I guarantee you none of these pilots are lazy. The logistics and risk involved in moving cargo through out the game requires a ton of alts, an expensive ship, a ton of fuel, & a lot of time to make the trips. It’s not an easy space job & the rewards are oftentimes not really worth how much your risking. Most pilots do it because they enjoy feeling like they are helping other players. 26 Jump Freighters have died to this group in the past 7 days, more if you go back even further. I’d be interested to know how many of them had webs, how many were able to load grid, & how many of them had a chance to escape before they got insta-popped in a 10B ship. All I’m saying is that gankers need to be punished in some meaningful way aside from getting their trash ship popped & security status lowered neither of those are meaningful in anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kat\_Aisele](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kat_aisele/32/513450_2.png) [@Kat\_Aisele](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kat_Aisele)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/47 "2020-07-20T17:49:42Z")
> [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](#): > > There is a reason for the rapid lights on my webber. Your gunna use 3x rapid lights to pop a procurer before the 15-20 talo’s can show up and pop your freighter & add more tackle? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Kat\_Aisele](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kat_aisele/32/513450_2.png) [@Kat\_Aisele](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kat_Aisele)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/48 "2020-07-20T17:52:28Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > No, we don’t “act like” it’s ridiculous. It **is** ridiculous. Your post **is** ridiculous… It isn’t though. Your one of the people blowing smoke to justify a system that is unreasonably stacked against the defender. The equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel and bragging about it. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/49 "2020-07-20T18:59:24Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > The mechanic is broke. No, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/50 "2020-07-20T19:19:09Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > I guarantee you none of these pilots are lazy Bollocks, a blanket statement like that is just utter horseshit. Some were lazy, some were greedy, some were unlucky and some were not even at the keyboard. > unreasonably stacked against the defender. More uninformed crap, the odds are actually stacked in the defenders favour; it’s hardly the gankers fault that their victims don’t take advantage of that by making sensible choices. Do stupid shite in Eve, and someone will take advantage of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sebat\_Hadah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sebat_hadah/32/248462_2.png) [@Sebat\_Hadah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sebat_Hadah)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/51 "2020-07-20T19:33:03Z")
Its true. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/52 "2020-07-20T19:34:14Z")
> [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > It’s not an easy space job & the rewards are oftentimes not really worth how much your risking. Have you considered the possibility that the rewards are so bad because _so many_ people are performing this activity, that the market for the service is entirely saturated? > [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > 6 Jump Freighters have died to this group in the past 7 days, more if you go back even further. Why would anyone take a 10-billion-ISK ship **equipped with a jump drive** through high-sec? I’ve lost stuff to ganks before, but if I ever do anything **that** batshit, I want @Archer_en_Tilavine to take me to the shed and put me down like Old Yeller. > [@Kat\_Aisele](#): > > Yes, nothing is guaranteed and that’s how it should be but isn’t it all about finding the right balance to Risk vs Reward? A jump freighter pilot risks a ton of ISK for minimal reward. Meanwhile, a ganker gets extremely high reward for virtually no risk and smacking f1. You lose your disposable Talos & you buy some security tags with the Insane profit you make. It’s not right & it should be changed. Talking about “rewards” is meaningless, because they are set by the players themselves. No one forces someone to put 20B worth of stuff into an uninsurable 10B ship, and then fly it through the pipe, when they could put 1B worth of stuff into an insured 1B ship, and make multiple trips. Or contract the job, even just partially, out to someone else for a reasonable fee. It’s like if you decide to take a stroll through the downtown streets with your willy hanging out, and someone yanks on it. Should you be provided medical attention? Sure. Should the yanker be charged as a criminal and suffer an appropriate penalty? Absolutely. But the onus to understand that such a preventable outcome was going to happen, and to emotionally deal with the fact that it did, is entirely on you. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/53 "2020-07-20T21:24:30Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I want @Archer_en_Tilavine to take me to the shed ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/9/79c7a91f2562d21df55525bd20e915e855587d36.gif) BTW > [@MASS DDOS?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-ddos/255450/30): > > @Destiny_Corrupted I’m scared please hold me You never came through for me when the Internet was down and I needed you the most… ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/54 "2020-07-20T21:27:19Z")
My life is a real mess right now, so I might have missed that. My bad. We can do the BDSM thing later to make up for it. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/55 "2020-07-20T23:32:32Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Why would anyone take a 10-billion-ISK ship **equipped with a jump drive** through high-sec? Because Freighters don’t have meaningful fitting to increase their tank (Yes they have low slots, that is not meaningful with 0 PG & CPU). So JF’s are required to be used to increase the tank involved. Also I like your quote cutting the TWENTY off how many have died… Very sneaky. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/56 "2020-07-20T23:34:28Z")
I think what she means to say is that the instant you enter HS, you might want to switch from JF to regular freighter to freight the rest of the way, thereby minimizing your financial liability by orders of magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/57 "2020-07-20T23:35:06Z")
Sure? What does that have to do with what I said about said switch also decreasing your tank by a large amount. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/58 "2020-07-20T23:40:20Z")
Tank becomes less important vs making yourself not an obvious gank target. Any JF in HS screams ‘shoot me!’ ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/59 "2020-07-20T23:41:22Z")
So does any freighter. Because they can cargo scan you with ease either way. So the JF is more likely to get a cargo of a given value through because the isk/ehp ratio is more in your favour. Edit; Obviously provided that the cargo value is low enough. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618/60 "2020-07-20T23:48:50Z")
I was only qualifying her statement, not yours 🙂 But to address your point: - In most configurations, this is hardly an apples-to-apples configuration. A bulkhead freighter vs a cargo expanded JF have comparable holds, except that the freighter has more tank AND more capacity AND costs orders of magnitude less. Start tanking the JD and its capacity goes to ■■■■ - what can it possibly carry that is worth carrying **through hisec specifically** in a ship that itself costs 10b??? - If you feel the need to carry something (of relatively low volume) in a ship that can withstand stupid high alpha that a JF can withstand when ultratanked, you need an escort. For better or worst, most JF pilots in HS don’t use escorts. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > because the isk/ehp ratio is more in your favour. The opposite is true if you toss cargo capacity into that ratio, which cannot be ignored. If it didn’t matter, then you might as well use 2x DSTs instead. So while I’m not saying “you’re wrong”, I am saying that the points have to be made and kept in context. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-in-highsec-without-wardec-and-not-getting-concorded/254618.md?page=4)