# Ganking makes Eve a better place **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690 "2021-06-25T13:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/223 "2021-10-25T20:40:12Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > there’s one person claiming that ganking controls inflation Actually Orca Platypus, a well known hater of gankers, recently on these very forums claimed that ganking was so bad, only lucky ships got through to their markets. Therefore, in his view, if ganking didnt exist the market would be saturated. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The real economic impact, far larger, is all those extra shield extenders, boosters, bulkheads, yada, yada fitted as a direct result of fear of ganking…to ships 99% of which will never be ganked. So in what way are assets that are converted from isk to an item but not destroyed or used up or lost impacting the economy apart from in teeny tiny taxes on their purchase or manufacture? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/224 "2021-10-25T21:07:47Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > I just started Eve last week. What do you mean? Its no skin off my back hoss. You said you’d submit a ticket and back it up. You clearly didn’t 😃 So why should we trust anything you say ever again? > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But the other day I rolled up to some oblivious noob in a Venture, in my Algos with 5 drones and a bunch of antimatter armed turrets. Basic Venture is only 290 EHP…no problem. You should have pulled the trigger and found out. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/225 "2021-10-25T21:13:00Z")
I think the situation with ganking is this… As a noob, one’s 40K Venture seems a LOT of ISK. That may be all the ISK one has. Then time passes and you get a 40m ISK Procurer. Again, if you only have maybe 100m ISK…that is a large fraction. Now that I have over 1bn ISK, the cost of a Procurer is peanuts. So the issue is not loss, but relative loss. This is why I object to noobs being ganked, whereas trillion ISK corporations are fair game. To the noob, his puny little Venture is a BIG loss. Whereas those massive mining corps send out hordes of ( undefended, in my observation ) Ventures every day and will still make a profit if half of them get ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/226 "2021-10-25T21:18:45Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > This is why I object to noobs being ganked, whereas trillion ISK corporations are fair game. Hypothetically, if there was a blanket ‘no ganking of new characters no matter where they are in highsec for x number of days/weeks’ what would the benefit be to the game? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/227 "2021-10-25T21:21:46Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So in what way are assets that are converted from isk to an item but not destroyed or used up or lost impacting the economy apart from in teeny tiny taxes on their purchase or manufacture? All that shielding, etc, is drawing in PLEX, converted to ISK…which I’ve no doubt makes CCP happy. My point was that it is not the lost ganker ships that are the major expense…but the far larger number of mining and other ships with shields, bulkheads, etc that they would not need were it not for ganking. That’s where the real ISK expense lies. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/228 "2021-10-25T21:36:47Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Hypothetically, if there was a blanket ‘no ganking of new characters no matter where they are in highsec for x number of days/weeks’ what would the benefit be to the game? I’ve yet to be ganked…but I suspect if I had been on my first day ( when I’d never even heard of ganking ) I may have just thought ‘stuff this’ and not waited around for anyone to explain things. Some argue that learning Eve is a tough place should happen right from the start…but its already a steep enough learning curve. I ‘suspect’ people leave if it is too tough…but there’s not exactly a questionaire on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/229 "2021-10-25T22:06:01Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > As a noob, one’s 40K Venture seems a LOT of ISK. As a noob, their first 3 Ventures are free. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/230 "2021-10-25T22:09:29Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > All that shielding, etc, is drawing in PLEX, converted to ISK What? No one is buying PLEX to buy Multispec Hardeners or Large Shield extenders. Thats entirely besides the point. If its not being used up, its still in play. If you pay 30000 isk for a module that is made of 30000 isks worth of minerals theres no change to the market at all if that item stays in play. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/231 "2021-10-25T23:07:42Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What? No one is buying PLEX to buy Multispec Hardeners or Large Shield extenders. > > Thats entirely besides the point. If its not being used up, its still in play. > > If you pay 30000 isk for a module that is made of 30000 isks worth of minerals theres no change to the market at all if that item stays in play. Sigh. Where does that 30,000 ISK come from ? The tooth fairy ? It all ultimately arises from real money that’s been brought into Eve. There would otherwise BE no Eve economy if nobody bought anything, as CCP would go bust. As for nobody buying PLEX to pay for such stuff…I dunno how you guys get away with so many patently ludicrous statements. What DO people get PLEX for…toilet rolls in Eve or something ? My rl car has not been ‘used up’…it is still in the world. But that doesn’t alter that fact that I paid for it in the first place, some dealer made money, and the economy didn’t go bust ! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/232 "2021-10-26T00:02:49Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Sigh. Where does that 30,000 ISK come from ? The tooth fairy ? It all ultimately arises from real money that’s been brought into Eve. What are you talking about? Isk in the majority comes from NPC bounties and in the minority Blue and Red loots. PLEX doesnt create isk from nothing and you dont need to PLEX to fit a barge. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > My rl car has not been ‘used up’ Actually your RL car depreciates in value so yes it does get used up. I.E. UNLIKE a 30 mil barge, it isnt worth today what it was worth yesterday. InEvE I have regularly “hired” a ship by buying one, using it, and selling it again. Apart from taxes, no value changed. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/233 "2021-10-26T00:06:22Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You said you’d submit a ticket I did submit a ticket “hoss”. I was told not to discuss said support ticket. You’re such a tit. Go play with your gerbil. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/234 "2021-10-26T00:25:59Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Isk in the majority comes from NPC bountie What ? I have just over 1bn ISK…and only about 2% of that is NPC bounties, about 700m is from mining and 270m is from converting PLEX. What has the depreciation of my car got to do with my buying it in the first place being what keeps the economy going ? Heck…lets all just stop buying stuff in Eve and see how long the economy lasts. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/235 "2021-10-26T00:31:13Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I have just over 1bn ISK…and only about 2% of that is NPC bounties, about 700m is from mining and 270m is from converting PLEX. And where do you think that Isk originates? It doesnt spawn into the game world when you sell your ore or PLEX. It spawns when rats are killed or NPC buy orders pay out. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > What has the depreciation of my car got to do with my buying it in the first place being what keeps the economy going ? Well you brought your car up and compared it to an item in EvE. EvE items dont lose value, but your car does, so they cant be compared, thats what it has to do with the market. If you dont think your car is relevent, why did you mention it in the first place? > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Heck…lets all just stop buying stuff in Eve and see how long the economy lasts. When you create a strawman, try to keep it relevent, 007 ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/236 "2021-10-26T00:59:02Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I may have just thought ‘stuff this’ and not waited around for anyone to explain things I think that would have been a reaction that many others might also have. CCP have noted in the last couple of years that the confusion around loss (not ganking specifically, but loss overall) as a new player is a reason they believe contributes to poor retention. Not the loss itself, but the confusion around how/why it happened. At the same time, they’ve also noted that ship loss in pvp is the #1 factor that correlates with higher retention of new player after 3 months. So while there are players that might negatively react to being ganked as a new player and leave, there are also players that come to the game for it’s reputation for big fights and harshness, but then never experience anything like they it, and leave quickly because it’s boring. They don’t experience any loss at all that hooks them. Ganking is one of those few things that provides that experience in highsec; and based on CCP’s more recent indications, it’s not ganking that should be prevented, but more should be done to ensure new players understand the why and how, so they aren’t confused when it occurs. In addition to that, there is an old Law, Malcanis Law that applies equally today as it did previously - any change introduced to specifically benefit new players, will overwhelmingly benefit veterans more. There are many ways ungankable new characters could be exploited by vets, especially with skill injectors. For example, skill inject straight into a freighter pilot and be unkillable, even on autopilot for the invulnerable period. Just autopilot around highsec without really playing the game at all for long periods of time. That’s just one example. There are many that can (and have previously) been thought of. I don’t think that would really be good for the game at all, although both CCP and the community should always be doing more to inform new players of the risks they face, rather than just removing those risks all together. Ganking definitely makes EVE a better place in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/237 "2021-10-26T01:03:01Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > I did submit a ticket “hoss”. I was told not to discuss said support ticket. You’re such a tit. > > Go play with your gerbil. Oh? Sure you did 😃 Rather convenient they said not to post proof huh? Gerbils are illegal where I live hoss 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mikkir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mikkir/32/293746_2.png) [@Mikkir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mikkir)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/238 "2021-10-26T01:56:55Z")
People are being very disingenuous in this thread. Ganks aren’t happening based on risk vs reward, they’re happening because some people are just trying to frustrate others. Period, full stop. When I started there wasn’t a rule against ganking noob starting systems. I doubt they added the rule for it without reason. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/239 "2021-10-26T01:59:55Z")
> [@Mikkir](#): > > they’re happening because some people are just trying to frustrate others That’s a bit one dimensional. They just as much happen because gankers want to have fun, roleplay, etc. EVE is far too deep for the motiviation in any play style to just be one thing only. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mikkir/32/293746_2.png) [@Mikkir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mikkir)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/240 "2021-10-26T02:07:41Z")
I reject your entire argument. I’ve played long enough to see through that garbage. People trying to farm tears make the overwhelming majority of gankers that it is intellectually dishonest to suggest otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/241 "2021-10-26T02:11:42Z")
> [@Mikkir](#): > > I reject your entire argument It doesn’t matter whether you reject it, or even if I explain it. None of our hurf blurf here makes a difference to the individual reason any ganker decides to gank. But your view of the motivation is as equally dismissable as my view, and especially so as you have no way of knowing whether you are correct or not. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/242 "2021-10-26T02:24:48Z")
> [@Mikkir](#): > > When I started there wasn’t a rule against ganking noob starting systems. There still isn’t. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690.md?page=13)