# Ganking makes Eve a better place **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690 "2021-06-25T13:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/463 "2021-11-06T13:48:09Z")
And what about freighter ganks? You may be focussed on ganks of mining ships but you don’t need to look far to find thread after thread of people crying because the lost an industrial with billions in the hold. Your stance is that does not have an economic impact? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/464 "2021-11-06T14:04:51Z")
Well, a quick look at an Eve graph from 2020 shows 5.5 trillion ISK worth of stuff created a day. A quick look at zKillboard on an average day shows 40 billion ISK worth of stuff destroyed. That’s 0.7% Also…any valuable loot gotten by gankers wont be destroyed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/465 "2021-11-06T14:35:53Z")
Accepting your figures as correct as I’m not invested enough in this to go check Zkill gives only a partial picture of destruction. You get that there are entire processes where items like fuel blocks are created purely to be destroyed to keep stations online. How many billions a day are destroyed just to keep eves stations online? Ship destruction doesn’t balance that side of the scales on its own. And it’s widely know more items are being created than destroyed. That’s why scarcity exists and why ships are more costly to build now. The question is what impact no high sec destruction has on the economy. You seem to think none. I think if a player can buy one procurer and never have to be worried about it blowing up then the game is broken. We are never going to agree. And that’s fine. The bottom line is CCP disagrees with you and ganking is here to stay. If you wish to waste your time and energy farting in a hurricane have fun 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/466 "2021-11-06T15:25:36Z")
But the whole idea of ganking for profit is not destruction but profit. I watched a video of a solo ganker who claimed he can make a billiion ISK a day from it. Any destruction involved is minimal compared to that profit. People ganking just for the lolz may end up destroying more than gained…but the cost of 15 Catalysts is minimal. People ganking for profit aren’t destroying much at all, as the whole idea is that profit. And of course there is my earlier comment that ganking creates more than it destroys…because all those shield extenders, etc, cost ISK and so the majority of ships that never get ganked but are shielded in case they might be are actually adding to the stuff created. Thus the whole argument that ganking somehow prunes the Eve economy is likely just another of those ganker urban myths like the ‘align to…’ one. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/467 "2021-11-06T15:37:08Z")
Still doesn’t address the core point, do you think if you buy a procurer there should be no risk to that ship in high sec. A ship for life? ---
**Author:** ![Pozdro\_Tubylcy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pozdro_tubylcy/32/265318_2.png) [@Pozdro\_Tubylcy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pozdro_Tubylcy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/468 "2021-11-06T15:40:21Z")
EVE is not for everyone… it requires intelligence and street smarts… that’s why some people spend days unsuccessfully rearranging someone’s house… and the rest listen to native rhythms all day long, and the money flows… ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/469 "2021-11-06T16:41:41Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Still doesn’t address the core point, do you think if you buy a procurer there should be no risk to that ship in high sec. A ship for life? Well, no, the real core issue is that when I am mining ( I do ratting as well ) I am in a vehicle that cannot fight back against a concerted gank. I dont want to have to flee. It’s the running off with my tail between my legs that I don’t like. I should not have to. Does anyone suppose that any real asteroid mining operation would involve defenceless ships when there are pirates about ? Of course it wouldn’t. Real mining ships would either themselves be armed adequately or there’d be a proactive defence force. The whole situation with lack of adequate defence and the reactive nature of Concord is a joke. Of course there should be risk. That is what Eve is all about. But it is all way too asymmetrical. I’m not saying Procurers should be armed to the teeth, but one or two weapons slots would not go amiss…and even if one was destroyed it would be good to have taken down a few Catalysts rather than the automation of Concord doing it. It’s not about being able to sit around in asteroid belts with nothing happening…its about being able to have SOME form of enjoyable fight when it does ! ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/470 "2021-11-06T17:52:54Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Well, no, the real core issue is that when I am mining ( I do ratting as well ) I am in a vehicle that cannot fight back against a concerted gank. This is really interesting. 1 mans issue is anothers intended mechanic. why should a mining ship be able to fight back against 7 ships? why should a mining ship be able to fight back against a single frigate? Its a mining ship and the frigate is designed for combat. Which leads on to > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Does anyone suppose that any real asteroid mining operation would involve defenceless ships when there are pirates about ? Of course it wouldn’t. Which i totally agree with. Which is why you have all the tools at hand to be part of a an organised mining operation. Firstly your corp chat should be giving advanced warning of any unusual activity in neighbouring systems they are ratting in. That can give you a heads up on whether 7 catalysts may be heading in your direction. Then of course there is local chat. If you see 7 names appear there altogether you can assume something may be up and align for a fast exit. or be extra cautious and dock up for a a few minutes to work out what is going on. On top of that you have the opportunity to mine in a fleet with your corp mates for strength in numbers. And if its a “real mining asteroid mining operation” as you put it …it will have defense. Because that Orca that is providing boosts to your fleet can change those boosts to shield bursts. The orca also has a handy little ship bay allowing pilots in ventures to dock up in the Orca and jump into something more suited for combat. Nifty huh. And this is where it comes down to what you define as a fight or an engagement > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But it is all way too asymmetrical. I’m not saying Procurers should be armed to the teeth, but one or two weapons slots would not go amiss…and even if one was destroyed it would be good to have taken down a few Catalysts rather than the automation of Concord doing it. Because its quite clear you define the fight as starting once the gankers are on grid. Once they are already locking you. And honestly if that is the case you have already lost because it should never come to that. For me the fight starts when the gankers are systems out and im hearing rumblings in corp or local intel channels. Avoiding the engagement altogether is THE VICTORY CONDITION. And you have all the tools do that. Fair fights do not happen in eve. Its always stacked in one direction and as a minor you stack it in your direction by being aware and being smarter and getting out before they even get in. The best thing you can do if you want a “fair fight” is to jump into something nimble and go fly around low sec. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > It’s not about being able to sit around in asteroid belts with nothing happening…its about being able to have SOME form of enjoyable fight when it does ! Unfortunately for you as ive outlined above the sole victory condition for a minor is getting out. And i really think thats the right mechanic because the ships are designed for mining not combat. The sole exception being when you have an Orca leading a fleet with rep bursts and some dps ships stowed away, But thats not hard to achieve if you are in the right corp playing with people that group up to support one another. Now i dont know your in game sitauation. You come across like you may be a solo leaning player and if that is the case all i will say is that its a brave choice. Eve is a game thats more challenging solo and the benefits of flying with friends are immense from just having intel to having help in fleet. If i have that wrong i apologise but many of the arguments you are making sound very like you dont fleet up to mine otherwise you would see how it is often a counterplay to the issues you are highlighting. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/471 "2021-11-06T18:32:49Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > In your dreams ! The only thing you have offered is total evasiveness…just keep repeating the same worn out, condescending, ’ miners are lazy, stupid, yada yada’ and pretending that 15 Catalysts taking out a one day old noob in a Venture is somehow ‘PvP’ on par with a single Catalyst taking on 15 bigger ships with actual weapons. > > Lets face it…the majority of gankers are simply people who CAN’T PvP in any meaningful sense and so have to combine their collective uselessness into joining a team of 15 to go out and blow up some noob in a Venture and call themselves the heroes they’d like to be. Whilst I admire the solo gankers who are in it for big ISK…the majority of gankers are just today’s equivalent of the noxious kid in the basement typing ’ your mom sucks…’ and thinking they’ve achieved something stupendous in doing so. > > Good God, ratting in a 1.0 security asteroid belt with a single Hobgoblin requires more gumption and bravery. 1. It is PvP, whether you like it or not 😃 2. Uh rats don’t spawn in a 1.0.. 3. Gankers gank for profit so they can gank for lulz, please learn to EVE > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > A procurer can make its own cost in ore in just a few hours. Uh. Wut. Do you know how much ore prices are now? ROFL. Few hours? ROFL. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > FAR from bringing about a ‘cycle of destruction’, the REAL impact of ganking is to cause more shield extenders, repair modules, etc, to be bought…and thus not more stuff destroyed but more stuff made, as people defend themselves against ganking. Because most ships are not destroyed by gankers, the net effect is that ganking doesn’t destroy more stuff…it creates it ! Uh. You do know most of the modules are lost when the ship pops right? Its almost like you’ve never really played before.. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Yes…I had my own doubts about the whole passive align ‘advice’ for miners. There IS a little trick you can do in a cloaked Algos where max speed without MWD is 33m per second and yet somehow it instantly goes to warp on uncloaking, if aligned. But I have never, ever, noticed any difference at all with warping from a standstill if aligned vs not aligned. The whole passive alignment thing is an urban myth…yet ganker supporters love to use it as part of their things ‘stupid’ miners don’t do. Welcome to the MWD cloak trick 😃 Also passive align is not a myth, I already detailed in one of these threads how to do it. You can also higgs. Please learn to EVE kthx. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > A quick look at zKillboard Cept not everyone uploads their losses or kills on purpose to that site. Oof. Its almost like you don’t play.. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Thus the whole argument that ganking somehow prunes the Eve economy is likely just another of those ganker urban myths like the ‘align to…’ one. So you don’t understand basic economics. Got it. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Does anyone suppose that any real asteroid mining operation would involve defenceless ships when there are pirates about ? Of course it wouldn’t. Real mining ships would either themselves be armed adequately or there’d be a proactive defence force. The whole situation with lack of adequate defence and the reactive nature of Concord is a joke. > > Of course there should be risk. That is what Eve is all about. But it is all way too asymmetrical. I’m not saying Procurers should be armed to the teeth, but one or two weapons slots would not go amiss…and even if one was destroyed it would be good to have taken down a few Catalysts rather than the automation of Concord doing it. > > It’s not about being able to sit around in asteroid belts with nothing happening…its about being able to have SOME form of enjoyable fight when it does ! You can easily fit weapons to the proc. Just can’t mine. Or are you saying all ships should be able to do all things? ROFL. If you mine you accept that your combat ability is severely limited. Just like if you tried to mine in a cata, your yield would be terrible. Learn to EVE kthx. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Which i totally agree with. Which is why you have all the tools at hand to be part of a an organised mining operation. Firstly your corp chat should be giving advanced warning of any unusual activity in neighbouring systems they are ratting in. That can give you a heads up on whether 7 catalysts may be heading in your direction. Then of course there is local chat. If you see 7 names appear there altogether you can assume something may be up and align for a fast exit. or be extra cautious and dock up for a a few minutes to work out what is going on. > > On top of that you have the opportunity to mine in a fleet with your corp mates for strength in numbers. And if its a “real mining asteroid mining operation” as you put it …it will have defense. Because that Orca that is providing boosts to your fleet can change those boosts to shield bursts. The orca also has a handy little ship bay allowing pilots in ventures to dock up in the Orca and jump into something more suited for combat. Nifty huh. > > And this is where it comes down to what you define as a fight or an engagement Thank you for absolutely destroying her 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/472 "2021-11-07T20:40:08Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Because its quite clear you define the fight as starting once the gankers are on grid. Once they are already locking you. And honestly if that is the case you have already lost because it should never come to that. For me the fight starts when the gankers are systems out and im hearing rumblings in corp or local intel channels. Avoiding the engagement altogether is THE VICTORY CONDITION. How can people on the one hand insist it is all PvP…and in the next breath argue that I should run away ? No…I don’t want to run away…I want a fight. I just want it rather less asymmetrical. You ask why should mining ships be armed. Why shouldn’t they be ? It’s not like they don’t have the actual size for armaments. A Procurer is 5 or 6 times the size of a Tristan, yet the Tristan has 3 slots for weapons. Does that make sense ? No. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/473 "2021-11-07T20:43:28Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Uh. Wut. Do you know how much ore prices are now? ROFL. Few hours? ROFL. Clearly you don’t. DO stop with the ludicrous condescension as every response. YES…I can and do mine the cost of a Procurer in a few hours. YOU should maybe take your own advice and ‘learn to Eve’. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/474 "2021-11-07T20:50:37Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Thank you for absolutely destroying her Lol…in your dreams ! I can see that having any form of discussion with you is utterly pointless, because ALL you ever have to offer is a condescending and patronising attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/475 "2021-11-07T20:52:37Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > So when you hit warp………Its insta. Uh, no. Please do the new bros tutorial. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/476 "2021-11-07T21:01:36Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I can see that having any form of discussion with you is utterly pointless “Ignore” feature, best feature. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/477 "2021-11-07T21:48:45Z")
Why does the pickaxe Im using to break up these rocks not also fire bullets. Answer…Because its a pickaxe and its designed for breaking rocks. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > How can people on the one hand insist it is all PvP How can people not realise there is more to a fight than the fight.? The gankers have fit ships for the purpose. They have scouted. They have identified their target. The have possibly warped in and set a bookmark near you to get the drop on you. yet… You ignore intel channels…ignore people showing up in local…don’t fit appropriately…and dont warp out in time when they arrive. Because of some incorrect notion that you dont need to do any work to have a “fair fight”. Just nonsense. lol ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/478 "2021-11-07T21:55:52Z")
exactly at least 95% of the “fight” happens before you undock, before you start mining, if you skip that then don’t be surprised when you die in a big ball of fire. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/479 "2021-11-08T01:43:11Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Clearly you don’t. DO stop with the ludicrous condescension as every response. YES…I can and do mine the cost of a Procurer in a few hours. YOU should maybe take your own advice and ‘learn to Eve’. Well, sadly I don’t need to multi box like some 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Lol…in your dreams ! I can see that having any form of discussion with you is utterly pointless, because ALL you ever have to offer is a condescending and patronising attitude. Tell me, what is proper PvP again? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/480 "2021-11-08T02:13:43Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > You ignore intel channels…ignore people showing up in local…don’t fit appropriately…and dont warp out in time when they arrive. Because of some incorrect notion that you dont need to do any work to have a “fair fight”. Oh God…what a load of rubbish. Unless you are one of those remote viewers hired by Stanford Research, you have no idea what I do. So stop making it up. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/481 "2021-11-08T02:20:18Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Tell me, what is proper PvP again? Er, let me see. Two Gnosis, a Hurricane, a Zealot, a Tornado, and an Ashimmu…all taking on a Tristan. What heroics ! I think I’ll have to go outside and squash a few ants ( PvA ) to feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690/482 "2021-11-08T02:27:03Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > How can people not realise there is more to a fight than the fight.? The gankers have fit ships for the purpose. They have scouted. They have identified their target. The have possibly warped in and set a bookmark near you to get the drop on you. yet… And then they get zonked by a PvE police force that THEY ‘took into account’ when they chose their ships, weapons, etc…and yet somehow your twisted logic manages to avoid **that** being PvE. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-makes-eve-a-better-place/317690.md?page=25)