# Ganking, or rather the Right to Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [September 7, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482 "2018-09-07T13:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/531 "2018-09-29T09:36:47Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > I strongly disagree with this “too easy” mantra, but that’s something I’ll leave for another post… if I manage to find the time to write a reply to other posts in this thread before it gets locked, that is… I laid it out above and what I would do to reduce those advantages. LOL, as soon as I mention bumping, threads tend to get locked… > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Anyway, I understand how bumping may look like a broken mechanic, I was working not so much on broken, more like too much of an advantage. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > but the only “imbalance” I see here in terms of AG is the gankers have much bigger fleets than I can deal with alone, and this is not a game mechanic imbalance, it’s just a matter of me not wanting to have to manage half that many accounts and not knowing that many pilots to fleet with either. Understand that totally. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > I simply don’t feel that attached to the victims to go out of my way and have more accounts than I want to play with just to try to save them. Heck, most of the victims themselves are unwilling to spend time fighting _in game_ the gankers that killed them… I can certainly understand that. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > But at any rate, if freighter ganking happened in my area of operation and I didn’t have higher priority targets around (that’s a big “if”) I would certainly try things anyway even if I had to do it alone. I can’t imagine myself giving up if I don’t have other targets to go after. Well adding to the cost of the gankers is always a win and does seem to produce some salt, but that is about the only strategic level reason to do it for me at least, not the salt of course. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/532 "2018-09-30T07:53:19Z")
> [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](#): > > All CCP needed to do was model REALISTIC LAW ENFORCEMENT in HiSec… > > - make purposeful BUMPING the CRIMINAL AGGRESSION that it really is. > > - NOT allow criminals any refuge in HiSec. Not even in Pods… No Gate, No Station. > > Rediculous to imagine a future society that has faster than light travel yet the cops can’t identify or keep track criminals in secured areas; nonsense! While bumping is just a very old and crude mechanic and won’t get touched for this reason by CCP, unless it becomes a major problem, is there also not much wrong with it. But why not allow refuge for criminals in high-sec? It’s not at all unrealistic. Many criminals live within our society. Some await prosecution, others have long records but are currently free of any charges, and some do get away with crime. It’s unrealistic to think that criminals in RL would always have to face consequences. They don’t as a matter of fact. It’s then Hollywood, which even promotes this, where men in movies regularly assault (i.e. punch in the face) and nobody calls the police over it. Many victims of crime in our society don’t actually press charges. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/533 "2018-09-30T08:33:34Z")
Many people do not understand the strategic implications of freighter bumping and the way it adds on top of other advantages. When you have a mechanic that enables you to pick the time and place of your attack with total immunity from reaction it is by it’s nature too strong for effective opposition. The advantages are pretty easy to understand, bumping itself is something that we use in other areas of space and is a method to stop people getting safe in areas of space where the person being bumped can use force to defend themselves, so in affect it is a tactical tool in those areas of space . However in terms of Hisec ganking it is a strategic tool and is used that way and why not. If you have been in a situation where you have a fleet of people ready to rep and you have six freighters being bumped and the gankers in small fast mobile ships able to pick which one to hit you are already in a lose situation. Being able to stack up multiple possible targets with impunity and being to keep them there for as long as they want is a huge strategic advantage. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a blithering idiot… I suggested a module that fits in the lows, it removes the cap at which your cannot warp because you are going too fast, it also open ends the max speed of the ship, so continuous bumps means that it goes faster and faster. Of course you have to have something to warp to be able to warp out, be it a bookmark or a fleet mate, but it adds a chance to get out more than the bumper getting lazy. For a long time I wanted to find something that would not harm bumping in other areas and this suggestion does it. I am now going to raise it in Features and ideas to see whether CCP will do a HIC on it… The other strategic advantages of the use of NPC stations is to force fights around bases, be it their own or those which allow them access and no I do not require it to default to exclude -10’s on player owned structures. If this was to happen, that Fortizar in Uedama is going to go down and all the structures that allow gankers to dock in Niarja too. I though you liked content, or do you? And this loot scooping through DST’s is just lame, because it removes a key vulnerability for counter play. So the gankers will continue to gloat over their easy play and massive strategic advantages, and I will continue to point out that when there is a more level playing field that smile will be wiped off of their faces which is why the gankers will attack anyone personally that threatens their easy play advantage. TLDR: Bumping offers too much of a strategic advantage for freighter gankers, a module that enables the freighter to warp at any speed and which builds up the speed from bumping to put a cap on what is physically possible would add more counter play ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/534 "2018-09-30T08:51:03Z")
Another thread, another dracvlad cryfest about bumping > [@Dracvlad](#): > > When you have a mechanic that enables you to pick the time and place of your attack with total immunity from reaction Do you know how easy it is to counterbump someone into warp? or kill the bumper > [@Dracvlad](#): > > where the person being bumped can use force to defend themselves Hows a freighter defending itself in low or null? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > If you have been in a situation where you have a fleet of people ready to rep and you have six freighters being bumped and the gankers in small fast mobile ships able to pick which one to hit you are already in a lose situation. Lol, lets just choose a situation that never happens. 6 bumped targets lol, maybe 3 rarely, 2 sometimes. It’s not our fault ag are trash and fall for a warp to bookmark off grid then warp to different gate. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > The other strategic advantages of the use of NPC stations is to force fights around bases, be it their own or those which allow them access and no I do not require it to default to exclude -10’s on player owned structures. If this was to happen, that Fortizar in Uedama is going to go down and all the structures that allow gankers to dock in Niarja too. I though you liked content, or do you? lol that would never happen. Your failure ag friends have already tried like half a dozen times on the fort in Uedama, guess what? It’s still there 🤣 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And this loot scooping through DST’s is just lame, because it removes a key vulnerability for counter play. Looting already sucks, we have multiple thieves every single gank trying their hardest, you just want everything to be so hard nobody wants to gank anymore > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Bumping offers too much of a strategic advantage for freighter gankers “Strategic advantage” against who lol? The simple fact is, is that bumping is balanced by the fact freighters are so tanky and hard to kill, remove it and freighter ganking won’t exist anymore. Highsecs already too safe ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/535 "2018-09-30T09:06:22Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > The simple fact is, is that bumping is balanced by the fact freighters are so tanky and hard to kill, Rubbish…, loads die. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > remove it [bumping] and freighter ganking won’t exist anymore. A classic change the discussion point, I am not removing it, just adding a module that makes it less certain. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Highsecs already too safe That is also rubbish… You are stuck on easy mode mate and it shows. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Hows a freighter defending itself in low or null? I was talking about bumping used in other areas of space, I thought that would be obvious. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Do you know how easy it is to counterbump someone into warp? There is more to it than that. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > or kill the bumper Already explained in this thread. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Lol, lets just choose a situation that never happens. 6 bumped targets lol, maybe 3 rarely, 2 sometimes. That certainly did happen, it might not be happening so much now, but it did. ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/536 "2018-09-30T09:09:03Z")
why do I even bother? You just type rubbish when you’re wrong and be retarded > [@Dracvlad](#): > > loads die. and? @ISD_Norros Can you just close this thread, just look at dracvlads posts ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/537 "2018-09-30T09:12:14Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Can you just close this thread, just look at dracvlads posts See as I said you try personal insults, throw comments like you want to end ganking and then you call for the thread to be closed. What a wimp… ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/538 "2018-09-30T09:13:09Z")
Edits his 2 quote no answer post to look less stupid lol ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/539 "2018-09-30T09:13:56Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Edits his 2 quote no answer post to look less stupid lol And what exactly can your refute, nothing, just insults and hot air and calls to close the thread. I had to do something in RL, gave an immediate answer and then added more answers to your no-points… ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/540 "2018-09-30T09:17:29Z")
Go look up above and think about it (I know its hard) > [@Dracvlad](#): > > calls to close the thread. It’s just the same as the last thread that got locked (and the one before that), 10 people explaining how you’re wrong and you saying it’s rubbish > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I had to do something, gave an immediate answer and then added more answers to your no-points… Yeah sure, and I’m Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/541 "2018-09-30T09:18:43Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > It’s just the same as the last thread that got locked (and the one before that), 10 people explaining how you’re wrong and you saying it’s rubbish You say I am wrong and yet, nothing to actually counter what I said anywhere, hot air mate is all you have. Oh and plaintive wails to lock threads… > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Yeah sure, and I’m Donald Trump. You are certainly not Donald Trump… Another attempt to close the thread…, so obvious… ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/542 "2018-09-30T09:25:28Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You are certainly not Donald Trump… Prove it. He could be, couldn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/543 "2018-09-30T09:25:57Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > If this was to happen, that Fortizar in Uedama is going to go down and all the structures that allow gankers to dock in Niarja too. I though you liked content, or do you? Who would carry the cost of the war dec? ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/544 "2018-09-30T09:26:30Z")
His posts are coherent, so he can’t be. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/545 "2018-09-30T11:13:01Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Hows a freighter defending itself in low or null? I have never used freighter in low (at least yet), but even with dst/br I have no idea how they defend themselves in low… may have something to do with using brains for hauling and scouting known chokepoints. It is worth noting that I haul a lot through low sec and I rarely lose anything – and all my losses there were before I skilled into transport ships (with exception of one empty epithal at poco… what is the problem with losing empty epithal?) ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/546 "2018-09-30T11:14:40Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Rubbish…, loads die. Loads die? How many max dps ships you need to take down even antitanked freighter? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/547 "2018-09-30T12:15:10Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > Loads die? How many max dps ships you need to take down even antitanked freighter? He said hisec was safe 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/548 "2018-09-30T12:18:33Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > call for the thread to be closed. What a wimp… wimp? haha, from some carebear ager, cute. It’s the whole thread, like 10 people against you (even an antiganker), and you don’t want to do anything but troll and give non answers when people actually converse with you. Why should this thread even stay open? theres no point. It’s okay tho. Another thread will open up soon enough and the same crap will happen with you and salvos turning it into a sewer. > [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > I have never used freighter in low (at least yet), but even with dst/br I have no idea how they defend themselves in low… may have something to do with using brains for hauling and scouting known chokepoints. That’s the point. You need to scout at a minimum, and have a fleet escorting preferably if you aren’t just jumping it with a titan as it can’t defend itself against even a single combat ship. Why should it be any different in highsec? Why should my 50 person fleet not easily kill a lone freighter? Most antigankers just don’t get it. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > He said hisec was safe 🤣 10s of thousands of freighters get to Jita, and a couple die. Sounds pretty safe to me ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/549 "2018-09-30T12:27:38Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > wimp? haha, from some carebear ager, cute. Please use the exact terminology, I do PvP in nullsec, you could call me a F1 monkey but you would be wrong because I have been skirmishing against BSOD in HAC’s a lot recently, you could call me a nullbear, but I have a Vagabond with 19 killmarks on it, mostly small gang with some solo in there. So calling me a carebear is incorrect. You however are a gankbear. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > It’s the whole thread, like 10 people So if 10 people are equally wrong what do I care. It stays open because in it I have detailed the strategic advantage that you have and what I would do to change that for better content. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > That’s the point. You need to scout at a minimum, and have a fleet escorting preferably if you aren’t just jumping it with a titan as it can’t defend itself against even a single combat ship. > > Why should it be any different in highsec? Why should my 50 person fleet not easily kill a lone freighter? Most antigankers just don’t get it. Once again you and the other poster miss the point and go off in another direction, hint I was talking about using bumping outside of hisec which does not mean that it is just about freighters outside of hisec… Yet again going off on weird side tangents and making yourselves look foolish. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > It’s okay tho. Another thread will open up soon enough and the same crap will happen with you and salvos turning it into a sewer. I am not the one who goes into personal attacks and gloats over RL stuff, the sewer is of your making. 🍭 Mad rant coming back at me in 5 4 3 2 1… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482/550 "2018-09-30T12:32:04Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > I have never used freighter in low (at least yet), but even with dst/br I have no idea how they defend themselves in low… may have something to do with using brains for hauling and scouting known chokepoints. It is worth noting that I haul a lot through low sec and I rarely lose anything – and all my losses there were before I skilled into transport ships (with exception of one empty epithal at poco… what is the problem with losing empty epithal?) The answer is that I was actually talking about bumping, he decided to talk about freighters in lowsec and null, obviously you fell for his brain fart. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Hows a freighter defending itself in low or null? So you are replying to him on something I did not raise. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ganking-or-rather-the-right-to-gank/104482.md?page=25)