# Garoun and Morthane: Hegemony, Rivalry, and the Federal-State Relationship **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655 "2018-03-18T04:16:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Claudia\_Osyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/claudia_osyn/32/387939_2.png) [@Claudia\_Osyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Claudia_Osyn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/161 "2018-04-30T12:37:02Z")
I ment as to who the offender was. From the perspective of the federation that leviathan was fairly offensive, more so when it moved to a position to fire on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/162 "2018-04-30T18:18:11Z")
> [@Claudia\_Osyn](#): > > I ment as to who the offender was. From the perspective of the federation that leviathan was fairly offensive, more so when it moved to a position to fire on the planet. How, how for the Maker’s sake it could be “more so offensive” when it moved to that position, if that move was caused itself by Federal’s action? It’s REACTION on Federal’s offense when they began planetary invasion. Of course, I still think that the best defense is offense, and I’d just jump that titan on Gallente Prime and would rain hell on their heads for that invasion! But… it was Executor Heth in charge, not me. And Adm. Yanala was controlling the ship. And they were only defending our homeworld from attackers. It was 100% defense. Of course, I am open to different perspectives and points of view, but I am really not interested in absolutely illogical and dumb ones. Cmon, no one in sane mind would consider defending fleet moving in fire position to fend off attackers to be offense. ---
**Author:** ![Claudia\_Osyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/claudia_osyn/32/387939_2.png) [@Claudia\_Osyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Claudia_Osyn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/163 "2018-04-30T19:14:07Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Of course, I still think that the best defense is offense, and I’d just jump that titan on Gallente Prime and would rain hell on their heads for that invasion! It’s this line of thought that the federation was worried about, and pulls the top spot on the list of “why Operation Highlander was a thing.” > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Cmon, no one in sane mind would consider defending fleet moving in fire position to fend off attackers to be offense. If it had moved into a position to fire on the attacking fleet, that would have been one thing, but it dropped into a low orbit, threatening the planet. A move the federation couldn’t ignore ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/164 "2018-04-30T19:55:46Z")
> [@Claudia\_Osyn](#): > > It’s this line of thought that the federation was worried about, and pulls the top spot on the list of “why Operation Highlander was a thing.” That again would be just reaction on Federal’s action, thus considering the ship offending by this standard is out of consideration. > [@Claudia\_Osyn](#): > > If it had moved into a position to fire on the attacking fleet, that would have been one thing, but it dropped into a low orbit, threatening the planet. A move the federation couldn’t ignore The move was started by the Federation with the planetary invasion. I repeat, the operation Highlander began before the move happened. This move was _response_ to invasion. And it was moved closer to deal with Federal invasion on the planet - threatening _invaders_, not the _planet_. Support of gound troops with orbital fleet is a common tactic, that should be known in every Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Claudia\_Osyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/claudia_osyn/32/387939_2.png) [@Claudia\_Osyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Claudia_Osyn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/165 "2018-04-30T22:40:50Z")
_sigh_ From your perspective, hell, from the Caldari perspective in general it may be true. But to say that the Federation couldn’t find the titan (a titan that was there in violation of a treaty or two if I remember correctly) a threat in need of being eliminated is evidence of the inability to properly gauge your opponent and comes across as a bit arrogant in the sense that everyone else’s viewpoint is irrelevant if it conflicts with yours. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/166 "2018-05-01T00:12:52Z")
I have said already, I discard points of view that contradict well known facts, as simple consideration of such position is straightforward dumb. Both ship and Caldari Prime belongs to Caldari State, it was obviously in Caldari owned territory, it didn’t jump to Gallente Prime, nor just drifted around Luminaire. It was exactly in this pocket of Caldari space as was designated by treaty of 10 june YC110. As far as I understand, the reason of its placement was a guarantee that treaty wasn’t violated from Federal side. But it happened anyway with Operation Highlander. Again, it wasn’t the State who violated the treaty, it was the Federation. For the fact that the titan wasn’t breaking the treaty says sheer amount of time it spent guarding Caldari Prime from federal aggression: five years. If that would be a violation, the CONCORD would have intervened long ago. And when actually CONCORD did intervene? When Federals broke the treaty and started invading Caldari Prime. But Adm. Yanala has destroyed CONCORD vessel, as the territory where Federals committed the breach of the treaty was under Caldari jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/167 "2018-05-01T17:36:34Z")
I mean, that does sum the whole thing up, Claudia. I just get tired of our actions being reckless warmongering and their actions being justified responses - especially when the Fed has a much higher bodycount than the State in these matters. ---
**Author:** ![Claudia\_Osyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/claudia_osyn/32/387939_2.png) [@Claudia\_Osyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Claudia_Osyn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/168 "2018-05-02T20:09:12Z")
> [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](#): > > I just get tired of our actions being reckless warmongering and their actions being justified responses Right back at ya’. Everyone feels this way. I’m tired of State loyalists who claim that the blood on their hands is justified, the constant misrepresentation of the federation as a den of lust and opulence and nothing more. The minmatar are tired of being represented as lawless savages and barbarians. And the Amarr… well they’re Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/169 "2018-05-02T22:18:39Z")
Of course State loyalists will claim the blood on their hands is justified, Ms. Osyn. They’re working based on their own standards and, respectfully, aren’t very interested in Federal ideas about what is and isn’t justified. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/170 "2018-05-04T03:59:34Z")
Claudia, if you think State Loyalists care how the Fed runs things in their own space, you don’t know State Loyalists all that well. There’s really only the one issue that stops us from being trading partners and… well… trading partners is good enough. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Syagrius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_syagrius/32/439868_2.png) [@James\_Syagrius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Syagrius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/171 "2018-05-08T00:44:17Z")
Ms. Osyn, your observation was precise. I do wish you the best in your efforts. But trust me when I caution that trying to find an accommodation with, or understanding of, our State cousins is the very definition of a waste. They will always be the victim, their actions will always be justified, if you don’t believe me… just ask them. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/172 "2018-05-08T03:37:27Z")
You always know just the thing to say to make me feel an abrupt warmth for the State, Mr. Syagrius. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/173 "2018-05-08T03:59:51Z")
@Diana_Kim Is the state a victim? Are the State’s actions always justified? 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/174 "2018-05-08T04:48:48Z")
You know Ms. Osyn is fighting for the state at the moment right? ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/175 "2018-05-08T04:55:30Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Ms. Osyn is fighting for the state 🤨 😮 🙀 ---
**Author:** ![Claudia\_Osyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/claudia_osyn/32/387939_2.png) [@Claudia\_Osyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Claudia_Osyn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/176 "2018-05-08T06:53:26Z")
Don’t act so surprised, it’s not like it’s a real war I’m fighting in. We tend to fight where the shooting is best, and that wasn’t in the amarr/minmatar WZ when we left it… ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/177 "2018-05-08T07:19:46Z")
Well it seemed a surprise to me. Like, only thing that would be more surprising would be if Diana Kim had enlisted with the Federal Defence Onion. That’d gast anyone’s flabber. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/178 "2018-05-08T13:40:43Z")
We fly where we’re welcomed, That was not the case with the FDU for the most part, but certainly was with StaPro. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/179 "2018-05-10T03:48:54Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Are the State’s actions always justified? Negative. If they were, Tibus Heth would be still the Executor, and there would be no Gallente left on Caldari Prime. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Syagrius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_syagrius/32/439868_2.png) [@James\_Syagrius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Syagrius)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655/180 "2018-05-11T00:36:37Z")
I doubt, it took much prodding Ms. Jenneth. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/garoun-and-morthane-hegemony-rivalry-and-the-federal-state-relationship/63655.md?page=10)