# GEAR UP THE RISK! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140 "2019-03-19T05:03:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/21 "2019-03-19T12:08:57Z")
I understand where you are coming from in your explanation above, especially bumping, however this is next sentence I disagree with. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > and an obvious design oversight that could have been addressed at any time without upsetting anyone too much. After certain time the game gets into a kind of balance and you mess with it at your peril. Nullsec has two major vulnerabilities that people want to tinker with, asset security and local. One of the reasons I left nullsec was a growing conviction that CCP would remove asset safety in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/22 "2019-03-19T12:21:38Z")
I might be wrong, but I think simplifying access to information wouldn’t have caused too much trouble. It’s certainly possible to change things too much by adding or removing information, but it could have been done in small steps over many years to avoid major disruption. Look at local: as far as I can make out, it’s used to identify who’s in the system, even stealthed ships. That data could be provided in any number of different ways. And IMO in much more interesting ways than the chat system. Using the chat system itself just means there’s one system to serve two distinct purposes - in my experience that’s a sure recipe for inappropriate compromises. More generally, since information about the environment is so important, what information is available where should be an active design decision. ---
**Author:** ![Jian\_Mira](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jian_mira/32/509519_2.png) [@Jian\_Mira](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jian_Mira)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/23 "2019-03-19T12:36:34Z")
Not everybody wants to PVP in Eve… that includes me! ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/24 "2019-03-19T12:40:54Z")
> [@Traco\_Miritu](#): > > You HAVE to adapt to what is done by the ovwewhelmimg majority of your competitors or things like what actually happens to this game occur,your players bleed away to your competitors… What competitors exactly? Star citizen is likely to be finished around the same time as the heat death of the universe, Elite Dangerous is basically just a community whining about ever having to interact with other players despite playing an MMO, other sci-fi sandbox style games are all single player, who exactly IS the competition? > [@Traco\_Miritu](#): > > And this means do what other games do and stop whining about “this is not my eve anymore”,just face the reality… No, the reality is EVE doens’t want to be like every other game out there, because at that point it literally has nothing going for it and will actually die due to being just another generic game in an ocean of generic games > [@Rroff](#): > > when they realised there was often no meaningful way to get back at the people who’d suicide ganked them, etc. a lot would have stayed if they could have realistically plotted some kind of revenge, etc. Its called killing them back, if they were ganked they got a killright which they can activate for free for the next 30 days up until they actually manage to kill the person in question, there will never be an effortless way to get back at them as the person being killed should be expected to have to put effort in to getting his/her revenge > [@Jian\_Mira](#): > > Not everybody wants to PVP in Eve… that includes me! So, what DO you do in EVE exactly, are you running missions/ratting without ever selling loot or buying anything from the market? Because PvP doesn’t mean combat exclusively 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/25 "2019-03-19T12:57:07Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Eve is a game of outsmarting other players by knowing what they can do and using what you can to reduce your risk. I had a huge amount of fun frustrating the hell out of brainless people who thought it was their right to easily catch someone doing PvE. Agreed, half of the fun of being a PvE player is using your knowledge to deny traditional PvP players the opportunity to get one up on you. ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/26 "2019-03-19T13:23:37Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Its called killing them back, if they were ganked they got a killright which they can activate for free for the next 30 days up until they actually manage to kill the person in question, there will never be an effortless way to get back at them as the person being killed should be expected to have to put effort in to getting his/her revenge That is great and all but usually these are alts people login to gank, don’t login again for another few months and/or only login for griefing, etc. and especially with the location agent and watchlist, etc. changes often they’ve done their business and logged out again before you can find them even. Or in the case of scammers never leave station, etc. etc. Not sure why I’m telling you that though from the look of your killboard you’d already know and just making an insincere argument. EDIT: I’d have been quite happy to help these people get a bit of pay back, etc. if there had been any meaningful way to do it - took part in my fair share of highsec wars, etc. in my time of playing. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/27 "2019-03-19T13:45:13Z")
So you don’t like that the game is balanced around something that ended up being an intel tool by accident. Yeah I can see that. But still it is there and it identifies risk in system. The balance has built up around it. Yes it can be better, but often KISS (keep it simple stupid) is better. ---
**Author:** ![Jian\_Mira](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jian_mira/32/509519_2.png) [@Jian\_Mira](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jian_Mira)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/28 "2019-03-19T13:46:00Z")
I do alot of mining, missions, exploring and PVE… Most of the stuff i mine i then sell on after refining it, and then buy better ships. Been playing for 8 years, and I like playing EVE and am most nights after work. I am just saying not everybody has to take part in PVP. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/29 "2019-03-19T14:08:24Z")
> [@Jian\_Mira](#): > > Most of the stuff i mine i then sell on after refining it That would be market PvP. > [@Jian\_Mira](#): > > I am just saying not everybody has to take part in PVP. Pretty much every activity in Eve is considered by CCP to be PvP in one form or another; including selling stuff on the market. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/30 "2019-03-19T14:14:45Z")
Drac What concerns me most is that it’s counter-intuitive for newer players. The lost opportunity is just incidental. In a PvP game, it should be easy to get started with _interesting_ PvP, but in EVE it’s not. What I’ve observed is that the people most likely to move forward with EVE are not “average MMO gamers”. Which is consistent with the retention-rate issue, and an indicator that there’s potential room for improvement. Though TBH I think Fortnite may have grabbed most/all of the current crop of previously uncommitted online gamers. This weeks “Economist” says they see 7 million concurrent players o\_O ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/31 "2019-03-19T14:22:50Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > What concerns me most is that it’s counter-intuitive for newer players. The lost opportunity is just incidental. Well yes, but still not a major issue if properly explained in the tutorial. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > In a PvP game, it should be easy to get started with _interesting_ PvP, but in EVE it’s not. I agree with you, as such I would start off new players with better core and race skills. But I have to say that Eve is much more than just a PvP blow things up type of game. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > What I’ve observed is that the people most likely to move forward with EVE are not “average MMO gamers”. Which is consistent with the retention-rate issue, and an indicator that there’s potential room for improvement. That is the niche, and people will come to Eve when their reactions slow a bit, I hope… > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > Though TBH I think Fortnite may have grabbed most/all of the current crop of previously uncommitted online gamers. This weeks “Economist” says they see 7 million concurrent players o\_O Seems a bit like Overwatch to me as a game, and the Economist is really a worthless rag and I say that as someone who subscribed to it for over twenty years… ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/32 "2019-03-19T14:52:06Z")
> [@Rroff](#): > > Not sure why I’m telling you that though from the look of your killboard you’d already know and just making an insincere argument. I only shoot suspects and null seccers 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/33 "2019-03-19T14:54:26Z")
> [@Jian\_Mira](#): > > I do alot of mining, missions, exploring and PVE… > > Most of the stuff i mine i then sell on after refining it, and then buy better ships. > > Been playing for 8 years, and I like playing EVE and am most nights after work. > > I am just saying not everybody has to take part in PVP By selling on the market you’re competing with other players, like i said, PvP doesn’t exclusively mean shooting each other and nearly all activities in this game end up with you competing with other players in one way or another unless you live your life as a hermit ---
**Author:** ![Zutan\_Rits](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zutan_rits/32/171582_2.png) [@Zutan\_Rits](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zutan_Rits)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/34 "2019-03-19T16:16:22Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Now about having your ship position revealed when using D-scan - No Not the ship position. Not even the character name. Only a sound indication ([https://youtu.be/HzzxMaSUBjU](https://youtu.be/HzzxMaSUBjU)). If you are alert you realize that there is someone else in the system searching (scanning). ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/35 "2019-03-19T16:23:28Z")
> [@Traco\_Miritu](#): > > Not your first language and not the first time you make no sense with your demands at all… > > The game is way too dangerous for a game that has to compete in todays market,it has to have MORE security,MORE safe places and LESS unsanctioned (by both sides(like in duels)) pvp. > > What you demand is the total OPPOSITE of what should be done in order to stop the players from bleeding out of this game. > > Not MORE danger is the answer LESS is. Your inner Balos is showing again. ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/36 "2019-03-19T16:28:34Z")
> [@Zutan\_Rits](#): > > Not the ship position. Not even the character name. Only a sound indication ([https://youtu.be/HzzxMaSUBjU](https://youtu.be/HzzxMaSUBjU)). If you are alert you realize that there is someone else in the system searching (scanning). Dscan, dscan, dscan - living in wormholes was crazy in that respect - I’d come out to highsec stations to buy stuff, etc. and find myself instinctively trying to dscan in station! ---
**Author:** ![Traco\_Miritu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/traco_miritu/32/130952_2.png) [@Traco\_Miritu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Traco_Miritu)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/37 "2019-03-19T17:03:11Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Your inner Balos is showing again. If this is all you have to say it is possible that you are the problem here not an opinion… ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/38 "2019-03-19T17:30:34Z")
oh look, yet another “remove local” thread. cuz thats an idea that hasn’t been completely beaten into a pulp yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/39 "2019-03-19T18:30:13Z")
I think there’s something fundamentally odd about having a game that is based on interacting with other players (either running from them, selling to them, buying from them, engaging in combat with them or working together with them) making it harder to locate other players by removing tools that let you know who is in the system you just entered or who entered the system you’re in. If we’re worried about it being too easy to escape hunters… fine. Add more tools to allow hunters to quickly find and engage other players. Put a 30 or 15 second timer on disengaging an offensive module and engaging your warp drive to allow tackle to land. Make whatever changes you want to address that perceived issue. But don’t make it so you harder to tell if someone is present. That just seems dumb. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140/40 "2019-03-20T04:21:58Z")
Yeah, I could see that immersion wise, basically warning you that your ship is being pinged with D-scan. Add that with what I said about ships probing: > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > As for ships probing for you, immersion wise I could accept that if those ships were uncloaked, probe scans returning to their ship could reveal it’s location only if your own ship was within D-scan range to get the coordinates. It could create some good ‘Cat & Mouse’ scenarios, definitely make things a bit more interesting. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gear-up-the-risk/147140.md?page=3)