# Getting the CSM to recommend the scraping of HyperNet Relay for functioning stocks and futures securities **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [February 11, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427 "2022-02-11T03:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sere\_O\_Asis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sere_o_asis/32/515651_2.png) [@Sere\_O\_Asis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sere_O_Asis)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/21 "2022-02-12T07:00:48Z")
There was a very active market discussion section on earlier iterations of the EVE Forums. Here are some useful links (now hard to find, if you don’t know where to look) that give you an idea of the scope of what went on in game in the early years. Unfortunately, when CCP went to this current iteration of the EVE Online forum, it seems to me, Market Discussions were an early casualty. [[Market Discussion 2017](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/forum/253/) [Market Discussion 2009-2011](https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3515) [Player Made Document (Demonstrating Detail)](https://eve-files.com/media/corp/haskell/mdhistory-2009-07-01.pdf) [One Player Made IPO Forum Discussion Thread](https://oldforums.eveonline.com/default.asp?a=topic&threadID=704847) While this does not directly address the issue you raise, looking through the old forums and some of the player documents will give you a very good idea of why your idea has received at least some of the reception it has gotten. I hope this information helps. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/22 "2022-02-12T11:51:42Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Bro? This is the interwebs. And the EVE Online forum. > > You lost or No, I just believe in treating people with some measure of mutual respect. That isn’t taking things too seriously. Thats just not from a place on anonymity on the internet trying to take out the frustrations of my life on others by pretending to engage in using the forum for its intended purpose. But go ahead, walk it back further, make more excuses for the way you act. Maybe you’ll eventually convince yourself that you aren’t exactly everything we know you are from reading your other post. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Lemme try again. People have already done this in similar ways in the past, without daddy CCP. You could, by effort and playing, do the same. However its clear you won’t and you want daddy CCP to do it for you. > > Ergo, you do not deserve it Weak straw manning. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > He obv doesn’t know about the great IPO scams of old 😃 More weak straw manning, and assumption… to go with nothing but polemics. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > In your _opinon_ … And… the entire history of modern markets up until now. Try more than a one liner, try picking out specific things to reply to, specific points where you think that is all assertion. Try actually saying something about what is actually said in a way that is relevant, on topic, and not a Eve Forum meme reply. You want to try and say it is about IPO scams, actually pick a specific one, and lay out how it is anywhere near this topic. Go ahead, I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/23 "2022-02-12T14:19:38Z")
I guess what could be cool is a stock market at jita that holds all stock info of items in the entire galaxy consolidated into single metrics in one place? Something like that. Literally off the top of my head. We already have the metrics flowing at the bottom of the screen where prices go up and down. Would there be a way to do it galaxy wide? Or seprate the metrics by empire space maybe? Or how about indy corps register on the stock market and genuinely influence things as a competitive entity? As you’d have the day traders and the blue chip mega corps kind of thing? A bit like fw but stock market warfare? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/24 "2022-02-13T01:58:03Z")
It would take a lot of reasoning out on specifics. But sort of breaking up from Jita, to a more distributed exchange would be the ideal, like a NASDAQ. Since there isn’t high frequency trade at play here, wouldn’t be a need to co locate with an exchange matching engine of buy and sell. More so would be the required public disclosure by a listed corp. Could be done with a mechanism like a public visible escrow account, with notification of changes below a certain threshold. Really would take some working out for how much accounting to list on an exchange would be bearable by the player base. Be interesting maybe to have NPC listed corps, like the FW ones, be a part of it, and have certain contracts like courier missions to carry out for procuring needed resources and goods. But also non-courier based contracts to help struggling markets at stations clear in a market maker role. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/25 "2022-02-13T07:31:13Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > No, I just believe in treating people with some measure of mutual respect. That isn’t taking things too seriously. Thats just not from a place on anonymity on the internet trying to take out the frustrations of my life on others by pretending to engage in using the forum for its intended purpose. But go ahead, walk it back further, make more excuses for the way you act. Maybe you’ll eventually convince yourself that you aren’t exactly everything we know you are from reading your other post. LOL, why do people always make the assumption my life is bad? I’m great 😃 And you are providing me much fun. Still trynna get us to raid transalpine Gaul huh? > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Weak straw manning. Nope, just straight truth, which is why you’re coping out 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > More weak straw manning, and assumption… to go with nothing but polemics. Nope LOL. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > … And… the entire history of modern markets up until now. Try more than a one liner, try picking out specific things to reply to, specific points where you think that is all assertion. Try actually saying something about what is actually said in a way that is relevant, on topic, and not a Eve Forum meme reply. You want to try and say it is about IPO scams, actually pick a specific one, and lay out how it is anywhere near this topic. Go ahead, I’ll wait. Actually its your opinion that it correlates to this at all. You realize that right? You are presenting your opinion as truth. I am merely pointing out it is opinon, which is factual 😃 You can sit down now Senator. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > More so would be the required public disclosure by a listed corp. Could be done with a mechanism like a public visible escrow account, with notification of changes below a certain threshold. Really would take some working out for how much accounting to list on an exchange would be bearable by the player base. Be interesting maybe to have NPC listed corps, like the FW ones, be a part of it, and have certain contracts like courier missions to carry out for procuring needed resources and goods. But also non-courier based contracts to help struggling markets at stations clear in a market maker role. LOL and the fact you think this wouldn’t be super gameable and corrupt is just the peak of being naïve. ---
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/26 "2022-02-13T13:29:46Z")
Well super gameable and corrupt makes for good fun i reckon. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/27 "2022-02-13T13:32:39Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL, why do people always make the assumption my life is bad? I’m great 😃 And you are providing me much fun. Still trynna get us to raid transalpine Gaul huh? Okay, I’ll take your word for it. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Nope, just straight truth, which is why you’re coping out 😃 But yet, no points, no specifics, weak hand waving off… relating to the above. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Actually its your opinion that it correlates to this at all. You realize that right? You are presenting your opinion as truth. I am merely pointing out it is opinon, which is factual 😃 > > You can sit down now Senator. So, how do things get developed? An idea based on opinions and assumptions, tempered by reason and mundane knowledge, gets tested, worked out and implemented. So given that, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? ‘Your idea, has/is an opinion, like every idea that ever became implemented is.. therefore it is crap…’ No really, stop, think, look at what you are saying, because it seems to be that. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL and the fact you think this wouldn’t be super gameable and corrupt is just the peak of being naïve. How much experience do you have, away from Eve, with banking, investing, speculation? I am genuinely curious. Because all I am reading here is Zuccotti Park rhetoric. Sure, you can call others naive, but what have you presented? ‘IPO scams bro, were a thing.’ Yeah, they were… now what is the context here? No really, just give me one thing to address and work with as some point you are trying to make, for why this is damned to be super gameable. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/28 "2022-02-14T00:48:21Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > How much experience do you have, away from Eve, with banking, investing, speculation? I am genuinely curious. Because all I am reading here is Zuccotti Park rhetoric. Sure, you can call others naive, but what have you presented? ‘IPO scams bro, were a thing.’ Yeah, they were… now what is the context here? No really, just give me one thing to address and work with as some point you are trying to make, for why this is damned to be super gameable. LOL, it doesn’t matter how much experience I have, tho I do. Bottom line, it’ll be gameable and easily corrupt, hence why CCP isn’t gonna do it. Every MMO I’ve played with a stock market has eventually shut it down. Hell, when Neopets had one, me and my friends farmed it non stop and made billions 😃 Sorry bro, your idea is bad. You could do something like it, but lets face it, you’re lazy 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/29 "2022-02-14T01:45:59Z")
I just don’t see what would be fun about it. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/30 "2022-02-14T02:50:00Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL, it doesn’t matter how much experience I have, tho I do. Than, why not make a specific point than with your knowledge and experience. Pick a specific feature of such an exchange, market you feel couldn’t be worked. Is it how margins could be done? Contract definitions? Leveraging? What specifically is it? Be specific, say something other than trying to straw man and ad hominem. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Hell, when Neopets had one, me and my friends farmed it non stop and made billions 😃 Lay it out, why didn’t it work, specifically, what were you able to exploit? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Sorry bro, your idea is bad. You could do something like it, but lets face it, you’re lazy 😃 More of the proof you are who we all know you are. Try and change friend. Really, it will help you be a happier person, and put down a lot of that need to try and perturb others emotionally to make up for the abyss in you, I promise, it will. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I just don’t see what would be fun about it. Watching market power slip from major alliances in some respects, by opening markets of speculators and hedgers from the near neo mercantilism that exist now with some elements of null sec sovereignty? Also, with how much market PvP exist in Eve, I have to be honest, I am a bit staggered by such a statement from a CSM representative. A stock and futures mechanism would greatly add to the depth of that gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/31 "2022-02-14T06:07:45Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Watching market power slip from major alliances in some respects, by opening markets of speculators and hedgers from the near neo mercantilism that exist now with some elements of null sec sovereignty? That’s unlikely to happen. The largest groups will always have an advantage, and I doubt adding some kind of futures market is going to change that. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Also, with how much market PvP exist in Eve, I have to be honest, I am a bit staggered by such a statement from a CSM representative. A stock and futures mechanism would greatly add to the depth of that gameplay. How? Honestly, there’s almost nothing about this that sounds even remotely like it would be worth the amount of work CCP would have to do to create it. I don’t see it being something that would attract new players to the game - anybody who really wants this kind of ‘gameplay’ would be better off just putting a couple hundreds bucks into an e-trade account and doing it for real. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/32 "2022-02-14T06:24:23Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > That’s unlikely to happen. The largest groups will always have an advantage, and I doubt adding some kind of futures market is going to change that. Thats exactly what happened in the real world with the democratization of markets with public exchange floors that futures trading brought for commodities, and stocks for wealth management. Large groups will have an advantage sure, being better capitalized. That said, unless governments step in, giants drop dead like everyone else when allowed to, and that is what happens when a large group tries to be bigger than the market despite market fundamentals reality. So I don’t see CCP doing bail outs to go and mess that up. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > How? Honestly, there’s almost nothing about this that sounds even remotely like it would be worth the amount of work CCP would have to do to create it. I don’t see it being something that would attract new players to the game - anybody who really wants this kind of ‘gameplay’ would be better off just putting a couple hundreds bucks into an e-trade account and doing it for real. I think that is a touch disconnected. More people than ever as layfolk are curious about, and are stepping into securities markets, a lot doing so by figuring out 401ks. Market, and trade simulations, with deep mechanics have been staples in many games about space, they already are widely in Eve. Yet, unlike combat, exploration, industry, and other roles, market trading and investment has gone little beyond holding commodities and market scalping. Also, Eve is literally known as spreadsheets in space. It is constantly referenced as one of the world’s best economics lab and model due to its scale. Adding securities trading to that economic model would add a lot of value by taking that feature of it up a fold or two. How many pages on Eve Uni’s wiki are about trading, videos on YouTube, with regular videos on it, how many people are deeply immersed when they get their hands on the MER? To say no one is interested in this game play, or it won’t attract others new to Eve to give it a try I would say is a lack of imagination for what people do find fun and challenging game mechanics to engage with. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/33 "2022-02-14T07:36:30Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Than, why not make a specific point than with your knowledge and experience. Pick a specific feature of such an exchange, market you feel couldn’t be worked. Is it how margins could be done? Contract definitions? Leveraging? What specifically is it? Be specific, say something other than trying to straw man and ad hominem. You confuse my knowledge with my caring about this bruv. I simply don’t care enough to do so 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Lay it out, why didn’t it work, specifically, what were you able to exploit? LOL market manipulation my guy. Gamestop before Gamestop. You realize they’ll be easily able to do it right? > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > More of the proof you are who we all know you are. Try and change friend. Really, it will help you be a happier person, and put down a lot of that need to try and perturb others emotionally to make up for the abyss in you, I promise, it will. Interesting you try to use fallacies but then engage in this 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Watching market power slip from major alliances in some respects, by opening markets of speculators and hedgers from the near neo mercantilism that exist now with some elements of null sec sovereignty? > > Also, with how much market PvP exist in Eve, I have to be honest, I am a bit staggered by such a statement from a CSM representative. A stock and futures mechanism would greatly add to the depth of that gameplay. In your _opinion_ 😃 Again, you stating your opinion as fact, when it is not actually fact 😃 > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > That’s unlikely to happen. The largest groups will always have an advantage, and I doubt adding some kind of futures market is going to change that. Exactly ROFL. They have the most capital to engage in it. This dude really just trynna make it like real life LOL. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Thats exactly what happened in the real world with the democratization of markets with public exchange floors that futures trading brought for commodities, and stocks for wealth management. Large groups will have an advantage sure, being better capitalized. That said, unless governments step in, giants drop dead like everyone else when allowed to, and that is what happens when a large group tries to be bigger than the market despite market fundamentals reality. So I don’t see CCP doing bail outs to go and mess that up. Oh. So you don’t live in reality. Got it 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > I think that is a touch disconnected. > > More people than ever as layfolk are curious about, and are stepping into securities markets, a lot doing so by figuring out 401ks. Market, and trade simulations, with deep mechanics have been staples in many games about space, they already are widely in Eve. Yet, unlike combat, exploration, industry, and other roles, market trading and investment has gone little beyond holding commodities and market scalping. > > Also, Eve is literally known as spreadsheets in space. It is constantly referenced as one of the world’s best economics lab and model due to its scale. Adding securities trading to that economic model would add a lot of value by taking that feature of it up a fold or two. > > How many pages on Eve Uni’s wiki are about trading, videos on YouTube, with regular videos on it, how many people are deeply immersed when they get their hands on the MER? To say no one is interested in this game play, or it won’t attract others new to Eve to give it a try I would say is a lack of imagination for what people do find fun and challenging game mechanics to engage with. Why do I read this post in Frasier’s voice? Are you RPing this post or ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/34 "2022-02-14T07:57:47Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You confuse my knowledge with my caring about this bruv. > > I simply don’t care enough to do so 😃 …and yet you keep replying? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL market manipulation my guy. Gamestop before Gamestop. You realize they’ll be easily able to do it right? How? Come on, be specific. Lay it on all of us, give some context for that specific example you are saying you know the slightest thing about (But don’t). Thats a one liner meme answer. It says nothing. It is like the crazy uncle who barks about ‘follow the money’ when things touch on a conspiracy theory that ruffles their feathers. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Interesting you try to use fallacies but then engage in this 😃 It is not a fallacy as you provide all the evidence of it. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > In your _opinion_ 😃 Again, you stating your opinion as fact, when it is not actually fact 😃 So the history of all the market disruptors over the last century… those are all myths? That when free trade and price discovery moved to an exchange floor, and then to a digital, it democratized and prospered a huge swath of the world population? Oh, wait, I should ‘Follow the money to the Illuminati at GameStop’ right? I am stating a viewpoint for something, now if you could actually stop straw manning, and trying a cheap high school fail debate trick, of calling that a non-fact as if that is some sort of argument when discussing abstracts to keep it at a high level, and maybe make a valid counter argument other than ad hominem… But we know you won’t, because you can’t. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Exactly ROFL. They have the most capital to engage in it. This dude really just trynna make it like real life LOL. … You can have all the capital in the world. If you get it wrong, you burn it all, or you get a government bailout. Or did 2008 not happen for you? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Oh. So you don’t live in reality. Got it 😃 Yes, yes I do, the one where in the last thirty years a billion people were brought up out of poverty largely do to market efficiencies, and free market investment in technologies. You know, like the very game we are playing, the technology used to make this forum, the food you ate today, the fuel that powers your transportation, the loads of stuff you can afford do to market forces of competition… Oh wait, Gamestop, yeah right, totally explains it all. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Why do I read this post in Frasier’s voice? Are you RPing this post or I don’t know why you hear voices in your head, maybe because you often find yourself alone? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/35 "2022-02-14T08:03:46Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > …and yet you keep replying? Yes bruv, you’re content 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > How? Come on, be specific. Lay it on all of us, give some context for that specific example you are saying you know the slightest thing about (But don’t). Thats a one liner meme answer. It says nothing. It is like the crazy uncle who barks about ‘follow the money’ when things touch on a conspiracy theory that ruffles their feathers. It isn’t tho 😃 But I get why you trying that angle as it shreds your narrative 😃 If you were actually knowledgeable then you’d already know what we did. Are you saying you can’t figure it out 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > So the history of all the market disruptors over the last century… those are all myths? That when free trade and price discovery moved to an exchange floor, and then to a digital, it democratized and prospered a huge swath of the world population? Oh, wait, I should ‘Follow the money to the Illuminati at GameStop’ right? I am stating a viewpoint for something, now if you could actually stop straw manning, and trying a cheap high school fail debate trick, of calling that a non-fact as if that is some sort of argument when discussing abstracts to keep it at a high level, and maybe make a valid counter argument other than ad hominem… But we know you won’t, because you can’t. LOL and its all your _opinion_ that any of that would occur in EVE with your idea. But you know that and its why you’re engaging in sophistry 😃 Brisc sees it too. You know what he does for a living right? ROFL. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > … You can have all the capital in the world. If you get it wrong, you burn it all, or you get a government bailout. Or did 2008 not happen for you? Imagine thinking real life and a vidya game are exactly the same 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Yes, yes I do, the one where in the last thirty years a billion people were brought up out of poverty largely do to market efficiencies, and free market investment in technologies. You know, like the very game we are playing, the technology used to make this forum, the food you ate today, the fuel that powers your transportation, the loads of stuff you can afford do to market forces of competition… Oh wait, Gamestop, yeah right, totally explains it all. I mean, you hear yourself talk right? Or type at least. You’re acting like enacting a pretend stock market in a vidya game will lead us into a new age of prosperity IRL. ROFL. And yes, people will simply Gamestop it and then CCP will shut it off as it hyper-inflates the economy LOL. Ergo its why they’ve never done it bruv 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > I don’t know why you hear voices in your head, maybe because you often find yourself alone? Oof the abelism. And you accuse me of ad hominem and then you make fun of mental health? And based on your age, if you don’t know who Fraiser is then yea, you def don’t got much to offer bro 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/36 "2022-02-14T08:18:41Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Yes bruv, you’re content 😃 I know, further demonstrating what you’re really doing. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > It isn’t tho 😃 But I get why you trying that angle as it shreds your narrative 😃 If you were actually knowledgeable then you’d already know what we did. Are you saying you can’t figure it out 😃 Be specific. What about Gamestop. Come on, your just on the edge here. What specific thing about the great meme stock, in context to a PC in Eve market, are you saying demonstrates unavoidable stock manipulation. You are so close, so close, come on, get it out. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL and its all your _opinion_ that any of that would occur in EVE with your idea. But you know that and its why you’re engaging in sophistry 😃 Brisc sees it too. You know what he does for a living right? ROFL. Yeah, I know what Brisc does, he is a lobbyist. Like he is a lobbyist on the CSM. Know what I do for a living? Know what other posters here do for a living? Whats your point other than an appeal to authority fallacy? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Imagine thinking real life and a vidya game are exactly the same 😃 Straw man, again. Also, imagine thinking the video game is anywhere near the far greater complexities of real life. Eve doesn’t have actual faster than light physics sorted out.. yet we get faster than light travel in it… But somehow, we won’t get an approximation to real world markets, despite Eve already doing so to commodities, because… reasons? Oh wait, Gamestop, yeah forgot.. Uhm, what was it specifically there again? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > I mean, you hear yourself talk right? Or type at least. You’re acting like enacting a pretend stock market in a vidya game will lead us into a new age of prosperity IRL. ROFL. And yes, people will simply Gamestop it and then CCP will shut it off as it hyper-inflates the economy LOL. Ergo its why they’ve never done it bruv 😃 Straw man, again. No, I haven’t been acting like any of that. I have been saying, and acting like HyperNet Relay sucks as implemented, and that a lot more of the Eve player base would benefit from a stock and a commodities market than a casino. You know, based on the fact that it happened in the real world. so we sort of have a really good model to develop our video game approximation on. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Oof the abelism. And you accuse me of ad hominem and then you make fun of mental health? And based on your age, if you don’t know who Fraiser is then yea, you def don’t got much to offer bro 😃 Well, I am sorry for your condition and the challenges it presents you. Perhaps you might want to consider disengaging, stepping away, and practicing some selfcare, and self-responsibility, while looking to sit down with someone and discuss a few patterns of behavior that may have gotten you to the place you are discussing being? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/37 "2022-02-14T08:39:51Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > I know, further demonstrating what you’re really doing. Engaging in forum debate? Farming you for content? Yes 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Be specific. What about Gamestop. Come on, your just on the edge here. What specific thing about the great meme stock, in context to a PC in Eve market, are you saying demonstrates unavoidable stock manipulation. You are so close, so close, come on, get it out. LOL you already know I’m right, hence the desperation. And there’s literally no way you can stop it in your system. The null blocs capital will make it a joke ROFL. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Yeah, I know what Brisc does, he is a lobbyist. Like he is a lobbyist on the CSM. Know what I do for a living? Know what other posters here do for a living? Whats your point other than an appeal to authority fallacy? LOL. I love how trendy logic is now due to the interwebs. I emailed my old logic prof and he is both pleased and dismayed LOL. > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Straw man, again. Also, imagine thinking the video game is anywhere near the far greater complexities of real life. Eve doesn’t have actual faster than light physics sorted out… yet we get faster than light travel in it… But somehow, we won’t get an approximation to real world markets, despite Eve already doing so to commodities, because… reasons? Oh wait, Gamestop, yeah forgot… Uhm, what was it specifically there again? Bro you’re the one attempting to link real life and vidya game 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Straw man, again. No, I haven’t been acting like any of that. I have been saying, and acting like HyperNet Relay sucks as implemented, and that a lot more of the Eve player base would benefit from a stock and a commodities market than a casino. You know, based on the fact that it happened in the real world. so we sort of have a really good model to develop our video game approximation on. In your _opinion_ 😃 Its your opinion that Hypernet sucks 😃 > [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Well, I am sorry for your condition and the challenges it presents you. Perhaps you might want to consider disengaging, stepping away, and practicing some selfcare, and self-responsibility, while looking to sit down with someone and discuss a few patterns of behavior that may have gotten you to the place you are discussing being? Cept I don’t have one 😃 And you know it. More abelism. Oof. And you accuse others of ad hominem LOL. You’re the one engaging in slander and outright slurs 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/38 "2022-02-14T11:34:08Z")
> [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](#): > > Also, Eve is literally known as spreadsheets in space. It is constantly referenced as one of the world’s best economics lab and model due to its scale. Adding securities trading to that economic model would add a lot of value by taking that feature of it up a fold or two. EVE is indeed a great economic model, but does not reflect the real world economy as many real world financial structures are built on being able to lend people value with tools to enforce people to pay back that loan. They are built on trust. EVE is different. You can not trust a character to pay back a loan as that character can be biomassed at any time and replaced by another name. In EVE, people are temporary and scams are legal. As such, all the financial structures from the real world that involve trust to a certain extent (which are most if not all of them I guess?) wont work in EVE. People have set up banks and other financial structures in EVE, but these were usually if not always scams. Pyramid schemes and the likes. The EVE hypernet, like the market, is not based on trust, they’re simple transactions which is why these do function well in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/39 "2022-02-14T11:46:29Z")
Eve had a casino once, thats why one of the wars was called casino wars etc. Ccp will most likely not put any work into something like this ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_murk_udoria/32/421974_2.png) [@Uriel\_Murk\_Udoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Murk_Udoria)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427/40 "2022-02-14T14:15:35Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL you already know I’m right, hence the desperation. And there’s literally no way you can stop it in your system. The null blocs capital will make it a joke ROFL. But you can’t explain your example, Gamestop, at all. You can’t even offer one sentence. You’ve said nothing. But please, I am waiting to read it, whenever you get to writing it. Why exactly would it devolve, what in the Gamestop meme trading event would matter here? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL. I love how trendy logic is now due to the interwebs. I emailed my old logic prof and he is both pleased and dismayed LOL. Alright. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Bro you’re the one attempting to link real life and vidya game 😃 Yes. And? CCP has humans in space, going FTL. Look they are linking real life and vidya to. And the point is? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > In your _opinion_ 😃 Its your opinion that Hypernet sucks 😃 Yes. And? it is a forum for laying out reasoning why you’d want to see an issue taken up in the CSM. Hence, near everything that goes through here, starts with an opinion. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Cept I don’t have one 😃 And you know it. More abelism. Oof. > > And you accuse others of ad hominem LOL. You’re the one engaging in slander and outright slurs 😃 No, actually, I honestly do believe you do. And would like to exercise patience as you make an effort to try and effectively communicate yourself. It is alright, there is no shame, just keep trying friend, be the peacock you are and learn to soar majestically. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > EVE is indeed a great economic model, but does not reflect the real world economy as many real world financial structures are built on being able to lend people value with tools to enforce people to pay back that loan. They are built on trust. > > EVE is different. You can not trust a character to pay back a loan as that character can be biomassed at any time and replaced by another name. In EVE, people are temporary and scams are legal. > > As such, all the financial structures from the real world that involve trust to a certain extent (which are most if not all of them I guess?) wont work in EVE. Yes, and those would be the challenges to it. Some of it would come down to escrow usage, via extended contract system. Other mechanisms like a player derived rating, like has been done with other games such as WarframeMarket, show another way to begin at least qualitatively defining a character’s credibility. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The EVE hypernet, like the market, is not based on trust, they’re simple transactions which is why these do function well in EVE. I feel you could do the same with a stock or futures/forward instrument in Eve as well if their definition is done right. Do I trust a player show up on delivery date with the 2.5 million Tritanium he is goanna have to sell at a loss? No that obviously wouldn’t work. If he has to have the ISK equivalent, or the physical commodity delivered by 90, 60, or 30 days to contract expiration depending on its definition, that be better, and achievable with an extension of the contract system. For a stock, it likely would come down to the listing corp, or a player character, having disclosure requirements, to make elements of due diligence feasible. Such as cash on hand, total assets, etc. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Eve had a casino once, thats why one of the wars was called casino wars etc. Ccp will most likely not put any work into something like this I can understand that view. That said though, it is still a good exercise to try and present an idea for consideration to the CSM, and go over it, even if it has been addressed before. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/getting-the-csm-to-recommend-the-scraping-of-hypernet-relay-for-functioning-stocks-and-futures-securities/349427.md?page=3)