# GM please close as Dracvlad is being a tool **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 24, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018 "2021-12-24T13:50:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/81 "2021-12-25T23:22:04Z")
You will notice in the technique he uses. He explained that he had to set up his smart bomber as close to the end point of the warp. It is all in the video, he does a really good explanation of how it all works. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/82 "2021-12-25T23:24:50Z")
So on the same grid? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/83 "2021-12-25T23:24:50Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I thought it was utterly stupid of you to suggest that in the first place. That’s stupidity on your part then, because 2-2.5km proximity is what would be needed to decloak someone, so for the purposes of the discussion, “place”, “location”, and “spot” all = within 2-2.5km. Duh. Did you even read the OP five years ago? Now might be a good time to do so. It’ll make sense why you’re still losing this argument for the past 5 years. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And all that proved was that he was in fact stupid. And I hoped that someone else blew up his alt because he was stupid. You literally sent him dozens of creepy in-game mails and he asked you to stop because it was weird and creepy. _lmao_ > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Go and look at the youtube video done by the guy who was smartbombing people in shuttles in that low sec system that connect Caldari and Amarr space, he also did it in Uedama too. After you have seen that then think about it. Link it or sit down sweetie 💏 ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/84 "2021-12-25T23:26:12Z")
He’s not going to offer any explanation as to how this is even _tangentially_ related to the original post, which was someone in a non-celestially-aligned safe spot getting found and decloaked by another player and asking how that could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/85 "2021-12-25T23:26:37Z")
He was actually smart bombing people in warp, so if you understand that, you can understand what is possible. > [@Xuixien](#): > > That’s stupidity on your part then, because 2-2.5km proximity is what would be needed to decloak someone, so for the purposes of the discussion, “place”, “location”, and “spot” all = within 2-2.5km. Duh. Did you even read the OP five years ago? Now might be a good time to do so. It’ll make sense why you’re still losing this argument for the past 5 years. Then you get stupid comments like this, how close does a smart bomb have to be, well in the lowsec system he was using a BS. I never said I decloaked my target because I did not, I had to work further to get him, helped by my targets stupidity and lazyness. But this guy was smart bombing people in warp. Scipio and this other tool can keep gaslighting but they are just looking stupid. PS I would link the video but I am off to bed. PPS I was wondering how far they would continue to deny this ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/86 "2021-12-25T23:27:11Z")
Well since I’ve **actually** killed players with smartbombs at gates (and even died once to it) I want to see him explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/87 "2021-12-25T23:31:28Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > He was actually smart bombing people in warp, so if you understand that he you can understand what is possible. And… that has _what_ to do with accidentally creating a safe spot and/or warping within 2-2.5km of someone who’s cloaked in a safe spot that’s not aligned between any celestials? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Then you get stupid comments like this, how close does a smart bomb have to be, well in the lowsec system he was using a BS. Shh shh calm down little one, you’re getting agitated again. How is smart bombing along a _predictable_ trajectory in any way even _tangentially_ related to accidentally creating a safe spot and/or warping within 2-2.5km of someone who’s cloaked in a safe spot that’s not aligned between any celestials? See, what Dracvlad is doing now is just blowing smoke and mirrors with this red herring about some random dude smartbombing on a gate in LowSec, which has nothing to do with what’s being talked about and isn’t related in any way shape or form. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/88 "2021-12-25T23:55:36Z")
Gankers only reach so far into HS There are many systems that rarely see ganks at all. If any backwater HS is being ganked it’s usually a local unaffiliated ganker who enjoys it as a hobby. CODE is still in the core of HS. Trade routes to jita,most of caldari/gallentie space, into central amarr. Just in my experience, it still holds true the further you get away from jita the less gankers you see. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/89 "2021-12-26T00:09:03Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Is the argument here that two ships with the same speed make a bookmark in the same “place” or “spot” or whatever on the same server tick? What would be considered ‘the same place’? The exact same place? No. But is a bookmark within smartbomb range of another bookmark made mid warp from gate to gate considered ‘the same place’? Yes, that [can be done](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/r20osq/smartbombing_ships_mid_warp_demonstration_and/). Practically close enough (sub 2km) that you can find and decloak a cloaked ship? Possible, but unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/90 "2021-12-26T00:18:13Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > What would be considered ‘the same place’? > > The exact same place? No. Within decloak distance. Read the original OP linked by Scirpio. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/91 "2021-12-26T00:39:23Z")
Okay, seems the original post was about creating the bookmark close enough to decloak (within km). Given that your bookmark spread can be much bigger than that (15km across from the link I posted) and given that you don’t know which of the possible bookmark spots between two celestials was used by the cloaked ship it is not unlikely you can spend an hour (a few minutes flying around each of the possible bookmarks at various ranges) to find a stationary cloaked ship at a bookmark even if you know exactly which starting object and end object they used to warp to make their bookmark. Yes, Drac was right that bookmarks land close to eachother due to the tick system. But the likelyhood of finding a cloaked ship is very small. If the ship only moved a little, warped at range or say, picked another celestial or bookmark to warp to, you can spend days, months or years flying around decloaking nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/92 "2021-12-26T00:41:50Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > Is the argument here that two ships with the same speed make a bookmark in the same “place” or “spot” or whatever on the same server tick? > > What would be considered ‘the same place’? > > The exact same place? No. > > But is a bookmark within smartbomb range of another bookmark made mid warp from gate to gate considered ‘the same place’? Yes, that [can be done](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/r20osq/smartbombing_ships_mid_warp_demonstration_and/). > > Practically close enough (sub 2km) that you can find and decloak a cloaked ship? Possible, but unlikely. Okay I watched the video. Yes, this phenomenon is why we see players appear on our overviews mid-warp. However, making the actual bookmarks between different characters leads to quite a bit of deviation. What likely happens during the smartbomb scenario is that the game treats the entire area along the warp tunnel as a single “place,” which means that it doesn’t matter **where** you’re sitting on that warp tunnel, as long as it’s in the same “grid” in the warp path where the overlap happens. The game doesn’t keep track of the exact position of ships during warp. This is why the smartbomber can get a kill every single time, despite variances in smartbomb activation. It works for this purpose, but trying to align safe spots between two different characters is pure luck, because one could be like 40,000km away from the other. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/93 "2021-12-26T00:46:08Z")
Well, what I learned from that video was that the bookmarks actually land quite close to eachother and most of the variation comes from the variation in start position at the ingate. At least that’s what I thought the clusters of bookmarks meant (I think those were in that video) - because those clusters of bookmarks were actually quite close and in smartbomb range closer towards the outgate. While smartbomb range is still quite a bit larger than decloak range, it’s not 40k km. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/94 "2021-12-26T00:48:35Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Well, what I learned from that video was that the bookmarks actuaply land quite close to eachother and most of the variation comes from the variation in start position at the ingate. I think this is because it’s the same character making them. Same client, same latency, same timing, etc. All same factors. Two different characters would have deviations. Try doing it with a friend during fleet warp. When I did, the bookmarks weren’t in the same place. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/95 "2021-12-26T00:51:34Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I think this is because it’s the same character making them. Same client, same latency, same timing, etc. All same factors. I doubt latency has anything to do with it, your exact location is calculated serverside for each of the ticks and depends only on your start location of warp, end location and warp speed. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/96 "2021-12-26T00:53:12Z")
Then the bookmarks should be in the same exact spot every single time, because math doesn’t lie. There should be zero deviation whatsoever. I’ll test again later when I get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/97 "2021-12-26T00:56:01Z")
The deviation is because your start point rarely is the same. You get a randomised location next to a gate or station when you enter the system. I think that if you were to reduce that random factor by warping from a much better defined start point (bookmark) to another well defined endpoint (bookmark) you can severely reduce that random factor and consistently create mid warp bookmarks much closer that it might even be possible to land within 2km. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/98 "2021-12-26T00:59:04Z")
That deviation becomes completely insignificant as you get close to the target gate. If you start 15km above and behind the gate, warp to a target gate 30au away, and the bookmark is a few million kilometers away from the target gate, the deviation would only be a few meters compared to someone who began warp from the opposite end of the 30km sphere (assuming a standard star gate) at the start point. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/99 "2021-12-26T01:02:03Z")
That was the point of that guide too: pick one of the last mid warp bookmarks to be in range of most victims, as the starting variation plays less and less of a role at the later bookmarks. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018/100 "2021-12-26T01:16:36Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I would say it was a typo… > > As for the meaning of spot and place, those can have different meanings depending on the context of how they’re used in the sentence. > > For example: I’ll meet you in the same spot at that place we were at last night when the band took the stage Except he has used the word ‘shrill’ every single time. That’s not a typo, it’s just the wrong word. Also, you just used them both for no reason. 1. I’ll meet you at the same spot we were last night when the band took the stage. 2. I’ll meet you at the same place we were last night when the band took the stage. You would be hard pressed to find someone who has confused about where to meet no matter which sentence you gave them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gm-please-close-as-dracvlad-is-being-a-tool/343018.md?page=6)