# GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [July 23, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089 "2022-07-23T12:45:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/21 "2022-07-25T09:23:04Z")
My post was made in generality. A healthy game of conflict requires good sportsmanship and the referees (GMs) patrolling the game should not blunt the game by making what I consider poor, game-changing calls. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Okay, I don’t know the specifics or veracity of the reports lo mentioned I knew only what little was shared on the forums. However, because CCP is historically notoriously aggressively shy about any sharing of specific details of specific GM policy / communications, it’s hard for me to tell what’s a molehill and what’s an iceberg tip. However, I am now aware there is a [blog post outlining the catalyzing incident](https://www.james315.space/2022/07/22/toxic-icecream/) and while someone may say “it’s just one bad apple” I will remind folks that it’s “one bad apple _spoils the bunch_”. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Kitty\_Paws](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/small_kitty_paws/32/267673_2.png) [@Small\_Kitty\_Paws](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Small_Kitty_Paws)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/22 "2022-07-25T10:11:15Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > However, I am now aware there is a [blog post outlining the catalyzing incident](https://www.james315.space/2022/07/22/toxic-icecream/) That’s a decent echo chamber… ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/23 "2022-07-25T10:38:49Z")
talk about burying the lead. Holy crap, I’m getting worried about the future of this game. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/24 "2022-07-25T11:55:43Z")
You don’t have to like ganking gameplay, nor the personalities involved, to acknowledge the negative effects of a principle of “holding strangers accountable for other’s toxic behavior” on the game as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Kitty\_Paws](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/small_kitty_paws/32/267673_2.png) [@Small\_Kitty\_Paws](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Small_Kitty_Paws)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/25 "2022-07-25T12:15:49Z")
I don’t give f about ganking. I make considerable amount of isk by blowing up other people stuff in hisec. What I care is spinning some sort of bad narrative and putting stuff into GM’s mouth without any evidence. And hiding behind EULA just to break exact same rule is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Swift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_swift/32/381987_2.png) [@CCP\_Swift](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Swift)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27 "2022-07-26T12:39:32Z")
Hey, happy to chime in here. There are several policy mischaracterizations in this thread, intentionally or otherwise. To be abundantly clear: there has been no policy change for ganking, and there are no ‘undocumented GM-specific policies’ of any sort. I suspect the parties who were warned are very aware of the reasons they were warned, however they can always reach out to the GM team in their ticket for additional clarity. I’ll also add that no warnings were extended to the other gankers in New Eden. Asymmetric PvP, as well as ganking, is still allowed in EVE. Harassment, however, is not. I hope that clears things up. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/28 "2022-07-26T14:23:33Z")
Thanks for the reply. To be clear, my intention was not to focus on ganking specifically. Real life threats and harassment happens in all security space. Given the timing with the discussion about community safety, the report had created an appearance of a possible broad change in policy on harassment in tandem. Glad to hear that’s not the case. Also glad that there is a discussion about community safety, I don’t want this to be taken as a criticism of being open about soliciting feedback there. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/29 "2022-07-26T15:04:57Z")
That was some swift action ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/30 "2022-07-26T15:24:53Z")
Yeah, his post really resonated with me. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/31 "2022-07-26T15:37:55Z")
You really Koval with these don’t you. ---
**Author:** ![brainlet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brainlet/32/420400_2.png) [@brainlet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/brainlet)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/32 "2022-07-26T18:18:33Z")
Your definition of what harassment has changed. This is the problem. Please summarize what those GMs said in the logs for the public please. ---
**Author:** ![Vexxor\_Aivo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vexxor_aivo/32/442061_2.png) [@Vexxor\_Aivo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vexxor_Aivo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/33 "2022-07-26T18:45:44Z")
yes, another issue that would be solved by not allowing non consensual pvp. The answer is right there CCP just refuses to enforce it. Besides the person uttering IRL death threats, this process using “provocation principle” seems like its working as intended. ---
**Author:** ![Vexxor\_Aivo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vexxor_aivo/32/442061_2.png) [@Vexxor\_Aivo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vexxor_Aivo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/34 "2022-07-26T18:53:00Z")
> [@CCP\_Swift](#): > > Asymmetric PvP, as well as ganking, is still allowed in EVE. Harassment, however, is not. > > I hope that clears things up. ganking is harassment in the eyes of the person getting ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/35 "2022-07-26T21:10:34Z")
So ganking is not harassment? Does Extortion fall under the Asymmetric PvP in Eve Online? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/36 "2022-07-26T21:29:40Z")
I always had and will continue to hold high respect for Aiko and it is why I tried to rp the way I did with Aiko. I had also witnessed first hand the respect Aiko gives to people who fall to an attack resulting ship loss and **not once** had Aiko ever retaliated in a toxic way even after facing the chat abuse that sometimes comes when someone lost their ship due to a gank. Aiko does have thick skin and many could learn from that pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/37 "2022-07-26T21:30:21Z")
> [@Vexxor\_Aivo](#): > > yes, another issue that would be solved by not allowing non consensual pvp You can’t solve people acting like children through mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/38 "2022-07-26T21:37:44Z")
Yup I heard miners raging over other miners mining the jucy roids or the same roids as they themselves and other such nonsense. Although these specific examples might be considered a form of PvP (rightfully so) I have full confidence in the ability of carebears to find the utmost meaningless things to be unhappy about and throw a tamper tantrum over them. 😏 😇 🤭 ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/39 "2022-07-27T08:43:05Z")
> [@Vexxor\_Aivo](#): > > ganking is harassment in the eyes of the person getting ganked. Eve is an Unrestricted PvP game, which is contrasted with Consensual Only PvP games in that it allows PvP anywhere at any time. The presence of PvE content in the game does not change this fact; nor does the ability to opt out of PvP through skillful play. Now, it’s okay if you don’t want to play a UPvP game. We all have different preferences when it comes to games. However, it is utterly absurd to equate intended game play with harassment just because you don’t like that particular element of the game. It’s the equivalent of claiming assault when someone tackles you in American Football. If you don’t want to get tackled, you shouldn’t play a contact sport. And if you don’t want to play a UPvP game, you should go play a game that doesn’t feature UPvP. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/40 "2022-07-27T09:08:20Z")
> [@Vexxor\_Aivo](#): > > yes, another issue that would be solved by not allowing non consensual pvp. The answer is right there CCP just refuses to enforce it. Eve is a grownup’s game thou to only allow consensual pvp would change the game completely. If that is what you are looking for maybe you should find a game that suits your needs. The people who master eve learn damage control and how to risk what they are willing to loose, people that play eve need to master this so that they don’t rage, its really as simple as that. Can you imagine a star wars scene the 2 armies collide then stop and the one army says to the other “hey can we shoot you?” “Wait just making some coffee quick” “kk, let me know when you are back.” “Dude you back yet?” “Dude” “O sorry forgot this was on, we where busy mining on our alt and talking ■■■■.” It would kill all emotion, suspense and epicness. Maybe try to learn to appreciate what none concentual pvp brings. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/41 "2022-07-27T09:46:03Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > epicness And on the opposite end of the spectrum are the TiDi battles that take a dozen hours or even several in slow motion or more like as if the game is on pause. 😉 🤭 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089.md?page=3)