# Going red on HP, don't fear it **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187 "2019-11-16T19:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/41 "2019-11-17T08:31:44Z")
> [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > Most of the time, no. Fair fights are pretty rare to be honest. Again, only because of player agency and superior strategy. If you arrange a one-sided PvP fight it’s because you were better than your opponents and beat them at EVE. And you always have the chance of being wrong. Perhaps that weak target you thought you were going to crush has a cyno recon nearby and you die to a capital fleet. If you arrange a one-sided PvE fight it’s because the inherent nature of EVE PvE makes it that way given even a minimal level of skill. The PvE will never spawn anything but the exact NPCs dictated by the script, and once you have figured out how to win nothing will ever disrupt your farming. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/42 "2019-11-17T08:34:55Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > > > Most of the time, no. Fair fights are pretty rare to be honest. > > Again, only because of player agency and superior strategy. > > If you arrange a one-sided PvP fight it’s because you were better than your opponents and beat them at EVE. And you always have the chance of being wrong. Perhaps that weak target you thought you were going to crush has a cyno recon nearby and you die to a capital fleet. > > If you arrange a one-sided PvE fight it’s because the inherent nature of EVE PvE makes it that way given even a minimal level of skill. The PvE will never spawn anything but the exact NPCs dictated by the script, and once you have figured out how to win nothing will ever disrupt your farming. You are comparing apples and oranges when you detest oranges. You may have some valid points about PvP but are way off on anything related to PvE, due to your revulsion of it and your ignorance due to that revulsion. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/43 "2019-11-17T08:37:41Z")
> [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > You may have some valid points about PvP but are way off on anything related to PvE, due to your revulsion of it and your ignorance due to that revulsion. What exactly is wrong? Where is the PvE where the NPCs can hotdrop you with overwhelming force and slaughter you? Where is the PvE where the NPCs notice that you’re in a hostile corp as soon as you enter local, warp out, and stay docked until you leave? Where is the PvE where the NPCs you thought were friendly decide to stab you in the back and kill you? Where is the PvE where the NPCs seek revenge for your attacks and destroy your station? In short, where is the PvE where the NPCs do anything but follow a predetermined script in predictable ways while the players effortlessly farm them? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/44 "2019-11-17T08:38:46Z")
And please, if you can, give some examples from the level 4 missions that are the original subject of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/45 "2019-11-17T08:39:42Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > > > You may have some valid points about PvP but are way off on anything related to PvE, due to your revulsion of it and your ignorance due to that revulsion. > > What exactly is wrong? Where is the PvE where the NPCs can hotdrop you with overwhelming force and slaughter you? Where is the PvE where the NPCs notice that you’re in a hostile corp as soon as you enter local, warp out, and stay docked until you leave? Where is the PvE where the NPCs you thought were friendly decide to stab you in the back and kill you? In short, where is the PvE where the NPCs do anything but follow a predetermined script in predictable ways while the players effortlessly farm them? Again, you fail to realize why some like to PvE instead of PvP and why some like to do both at times. The nature of your questions clearly show that. You think PvP is superior to PvE when you have no clue why players even like to PvE. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/46 "2019-11-17T08:46:51Z")
> [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > You think PvP is superior to PvE when you have no clue why players even like to PvE. Apparently some people like being given participation trophies and pretending that they are succeeding. We shouldn’t give any credibility to their bizarre “enjoyment”, just like we don’t feel anything but pity towards the people who “enjoy” playing the slot machines in a casino for hours at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/47 "2019-11-17T08:48:14Z")
But please, enlighten me. Why do people enjoy mindlessly hitting F1 until they decide they have enough ISK? What about EVE’s PvE is in any way enjoyable? ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/48 "2019-11-17T08:49:17Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > …mindlessly hitting F1… Yeah, done that in quite a few fleet fights in my time. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/49 "2019-11-17T08:53:31Z")
You say PvE is not fun, well destroying FOB miner protection response fleets is pretty fun PvE content. You should try it. ---
**Author:** ![Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wavemistress_moidel/32/211447_2.png) [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wavemistress_Moidel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/50 "2019-11-17T08:54:22Z")
I love lvl 4 missions it pays for my fun, gives me the isk to be creative. I don’t knock pvp’ers why should I we exist in a sandbox, many differing playstyles thats why Eve is generally classed as vast. I personally hate mining yet it has a big following, does it give me the right to come on the forums and attack miners no it does not mining is a valid playstyle imo. Mission running is a playstyle choice, plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/52 "2019-11-17T08:56:03Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You say PvE is not fun, well destroying FOB miner protection response fleets is pretty fun PvE content. You should try it. Oh? What about it is fun? Do the NPCs no longer follow a predetermined script? ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/53 "2019-11-17T08:57:20Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](#): > > > > Mission running is a playstyle choice, plain and simple. > > No, it’s a tragic disease and we should pity the people who suffer from it. And we should _really_ feel sorry for the people who are so bad at EVE that they brag about how “successful” they are because they can farm missions. … 🤨 > [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > You would think that this day and age people would have learned about the differing interests of others. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/54 "2019-11-17T08:59:03Z")
Have you done it? Yes/No. Of course they follow a script and once you work out how to do it then it loses its allure, but it is not mindless F1 fit and pretty much similar to kiting players and removing their tackle at times, which I am told by PvP players is the superior skilled PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wavemistress_moidel/32/211447_2.png) [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wavemistress_Moidel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/55 "2019-11-17T08:59:37Z")
Could you point to the spot on your ship where the npc shot it? 👀 ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/56 "2019-11-17T09:00:00Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Have you done it? Yes/No. > > Of course they follow a script and once you work out how to do it then it loses its allure, but it is not mindless F1 fit and pretty much similar to kiting players and removing their tackle at times, which I am told by PvP players is the superior skilled PvP. I frequently used a sig tanking Mach to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/57 "2019-11-17T09:01:27Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Of course they follow a script and once you work out how to do it then it loses its allure, but it is not mindless F1 fit and pretty much similar to kiting players and removing their tackle at times, which I am told by PvP players is the superior skilled PvP. IOW, it’s the same old mindless PvE farming. Changing the “I win” script does not make it any less mindless, especially in the age of the internet when working out how to do it consists almost entirely of reading the how-to guide and following it. Why the hell would I have any interest in farming a different piece of 100% predictable and mindless PvE nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/58 "2019-11-17T09:02:34Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Why the hell would I have any interest in farming a different piece of 100% predictable and mindless PvE nonsense? I think we figured that out. But you haven’t apparently figured out others might, for some reason. :sadparrot: ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/59 "2019-11-17T09:05:20Z")
So you have not done it then. First of all I worked it out myself because I wanted to. I was not farming it as there is nothing to farm on them, it was the defence fleet and nothing drops. If you want to make comments like that understand what you are talking about. In fact if people want to learn how to kite effectively this is good training. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/60 "2019-11-17T09:05:35Z")
> [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > But you haven’t apparently figured out others might, for some reason. You’re right, I have no clue why anyone would want to mindlessly follow the “how to win this PvE” script against equally mindless NPCs. It’s completely incomprehensible to me that people do combat PvE in EVE other than as a necessary evil to fund their PvP activities. But perhaps you could explain why people enjoy looking up a how-to guide and then following it with effectively a 100% chance of success? Because the only thing I can think of is a pathetic need for affirmation, a need satisfied very effectively by the automatic success given by PvE in exchange for even the most minimal levels of competence. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/61 "2019-11-17T09:06:50Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > But perhaps you could explain **To Me** why people enjoy looking up a how-to guide and then following it with effectively a 100% chance of success? Some things are beyond mortal man. Note: I did edit your post a bit for clarification. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187.md?page=4)