# Going red on HP, don't fear it **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187 "2019-11-16T19:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/165 "2019-11-19T14:12:11Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Except that what you wrote is again complete nonsense. > sub atomic particles are not defined by their state. They are defined by a range of state we can perceive them in, which is not the same as “their state”. well the theories say otherwise but let’s not discuss quantum physics here 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/166 "2019-11-19T14:13:38Z")
> [@Duro\_Peripar](#): > > well the theories say otherwise but let’s not discuss quantum physics here 🙂 I edited with a link to the part of the quantum theory that says explicitly that you are wrong 🙂 I quote again : > According to the [Copenhagen interpretation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation) of quantum mechanics, there is no fundamental reality that the [quantum state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_state) describes, just a prescription for calculating experimental results. There is no way to say what the state of a system fundamentally is, only what the result of observations might be. ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/167 "2019-11-19T14:13:46Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Are they? some do… Actual example : ryan costello… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/168 "2019-11-19T14:14:12Z")
And most dont. Next. ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/169 "2019-11-19T14:15:25Z")
And many worcoholics do not drop dead too…but that does not prove worcoholism is not unhealthy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/170 "2019-11-19T14:15:33Z")
I quote again, seems you need some specific efforts to teach you why you are completely out of the topic : > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > there is no fundamental reality that the [quantum state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_state) describes, That’s the real meaning of the **Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle** People think it means "we can’t " but that’s wrong interpretation. It means, “people who think it makes sense are wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/171 "2019-11-19T14:16:35Z")
Ah but we arent talking about workohol. We are talking about enjoyohol. Its sugar free and tastes grrreat! ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/172 "2019-11-19T14:23:36Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > That’s the real meaning of the **Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle** > > People think it means "we can’t " but that’s wrong interpretation. It means, “people who think it makes sense are wrong”. What you fail to see is that heisenbergs “solution” is just that…a simple solution to explain states we cannot clearly define right now…it’s nothing more than an easy exit like f.e. dark matter and dark energy… But theories like that were blown away by better ones in the past and this is not different 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/173 "2019-11-19T14:27:42Z")
It’s not a solution. It’s a principle of quantum theory. So when you talk about quantum theory that says “sub atomic particles are defined by their states” it’s a plain lie. Quantum theory stopped trying to describe reality, and instead focused on predicting the observable reactions. The notion of “reality” disappeared with the quantum theory. You invoking quantum theory as a proof of reality is a complete failure. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/174 "2019-11-19T14:29:25Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > [en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_optimum) > > Your process of improvements is made of incremental modifications, therefore it can reach a local optimal (because it assumes the model is continuous within the range of the modification) Ok, I admit that’s not what we were taught on uni 😛 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Those two definitions are the same. If it’s closer to the optimal, it’s better, and reciprocally. They are not the same. They can evaluate to the same only if you get maximization of “best” in all areas - then you reach optimal. but on it’s own “good/better/best” and improvement applies to one field, while optimization applies to all. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I am part of the people who search for those variables. I’m not sure what group you are a part of… > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > And I tell you, they have not been. but you seem lacking in information 😛 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > People like to walk on the emerged part of the iceberg, while divers will notice something much bigger remains to be explored. it may be true for real world, but eve online due to it’s nature as a product of human hands is infinitely less complex. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Except that when you accept to do 30 instead of 30, you therefore have no idea what you actually can achieve, and that’s why we have idiots on the forum who claim that doing 100M/h in HS is difficult. They don’t improve, therefore they can’t optimize. > They don’t try to search for better, therefore their knowledge is limited. But they talk as if they knew everything in the world, that they had gone to the limit of the universe and had spoken with God himself. What a bunch of ignorant retards … keyword there was “some” 😛 but that one is slightly more complex than you portray for a change - at least assuming I have understood you well - there is a mild difference between acknowledging that one is ok with current performance and is willing to stagnate on it, and someone who is not willing to accept it, but refuse to do proper research. And people complaining about inability of getting 100mill isk/h in high sec are in the other category. (I think I could get to that number if I cared enough 😛 ) > [@Duro\_Peripar](#): > > You HAVE to have spots where you can switch off or you will have a heart attack with 40… you do realize that one can enjoy one’s job and still be able to “switch off” to rest? Not to mention that having heart attack at 40 usually indicates that you were either over-stressed or had dietary issues… (here is old saying that may provide helpful to that discussion: “find employment in something You love, and you won’t work a single day in your life”) > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > This makes literally zero sense. Absolute reality does not exist, every one perceives the world and makes his own “reality” Well if we were supposed to go philosophical on that, absolute reality does exist, it’s just no one is capable of perceiving it properly. Issue with quantum physics is that attempt at observing the particle already changes it’s state. Which introduces alot of issues in attempts to properly model it. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It’s not a solution. It’s a principle of quantum theory. keyword - of quantum theory and he referred to quantum physics 😛 subtle difference, but important one. anyway folks was nice to chat with ya but I need to leave my office building, sooo see ya somewhen somewhere o7 ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/175 "2019-11-19T14:31:27Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Ah but we arent talking about workohol. > > We are talking about enjoyohol. > > Its sugar free and tastes grrreat! You really think your coming heart attack cares about your enjoyment of the reason he approaches you? Well you are wrong…totally and absolutely… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/176 "2019-11-19T14:34:10Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You invoking quantum theory as a proof of reality is a complete failure. Not if you disagree heisenberg… He just pulls out the “everything at the quantum level is magic” card and does not even CARE about an explanation…and exactly those explanations will prove his theory beeing the crap it is… I have none before you ask…but the future will show… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/177 "2019-11-19T14:36:08Z")
Youre the one making the point that enjoying your job causes heart attacks. So well done claiming yourself wrong \>.\< ---
**Author:** ![Duro\_Peripar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duro_peripar/32/168259_2.png) [@Duro\_Peripar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duro_Peripar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/178 "2019-11-19T14:37:53Z")
That much “enjoyment” that you even cannot switch off “what you are good at in your job” in a game is ideed unhealthy… You have no point to deny that… And that was the whole trigger for this discussion 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/179 "2019-11-19T14:45:00Z")
No, it was your assumption that enjoyment = doing something excessively. Which says more about your hobbies than anyone elses. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/180 "2019-11-19T14:45:21Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > They are not the same. The exact terms imply each other, therefore semantically the same. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > I’m not sure what group you are a part of… The group of people who like to search for variables in the game ? > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > but you seem lacking in information 😛 Indeed. and maybe all the models that are made believing they have all the information are actually wrong ? > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > it may be true for real world, but eve online due to it’s nature as a product of human hands is infinitely less complex. see above. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > (I think I could get to that number if I cared enough 😛 ) multiply by … 3 ? 4 ? And then we can start to discuss 🙂 . > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > Well if we were supposed to go philosophical on that, absolute reality does exist, it’s just no one is capable of perceiving it properly. How can you prove it exists if nobody can see it ? > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > Issue with quantum physics is that attempt at observing the particle already changes it’s state. Yes, but what’s more : issue with quantum physics is that we want to make reality fit our perception. That’s why QP introduce a lot of “things” that make zero sense for us (spin…), but do match the obervations. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > keyword - of quantum theory > > and he referred to quantum physics 😛 > > subtle difference, but important one. > **[Quantum mechanics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics)** > > Quantum mechanics is a fundamental theory in physics that describes the behavior of nature at and below the scale of atoms.: 1.1  It is the foundation of all quantum physics including quantum chemistry, quantum field theory, quantum technology, and quantum information science. > Classical physics, the collection of theories that existed before the advent of quantum mechanics, describes many aspects of nature at an ordinary (macroscopic) scale, but is not sufficient for describing them at small ... > **Quantum mechanics,** ( **QM** ; also known as **quantum physics** , **quantum theory** , the **wave mechanical model** , or **matrix mechanics** ), literally zero difference. > [@Duro\_Peripar](#): > > Not if you disagree heisenberg… But you CANT use quantum theory and not accept this principle. It’s intrinsic to QT. If you invoke QT then you accept it does not describe reality. There is no way around it. > [@Duro\_Peripar](#): > > He just pulls out the “everything at the quantum level is magic” card NO HE DOES NOT. That’s intrinsic to QT. You have no idea what QT is, how it appeared… And then you prove yourself wrong in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/181 "2019-11-19T15:16:16Z")
It’s funny how the loser Duos switched topic, declaring that I am talking about validity of something, when all I did was pointing out that our PvE is easy and definitely not fighting. So many losers. Losers. Literally real life losers. Honestly, I really would love to find out more about these people real lifes. It must be super interesting and depressing alike. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/182 "2019-11-19T15:17:31Z")
He doesn’t even comprehend what you’re typing. He just reads whatever his brain forces him to read. ---
**Author:** ![Harabec\_Ojutai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harabec_ojutai/32/212638_2.png) [@Harabec\_Ojutai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harabec_Ojutai)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/183 "2019-11-19T15:20:15Z")
I’m still having trouble understanding your argument here. As a personal example, before I became an attorney I was an archaeological field tech. My favorite job I ever had. There were things about the work that I absolutely loved–the discovery, the culture, the connection with the past, to name a few. I stayed late because it was FUN, not because I was obsessed with the work. Even though I worked longer hours and got paid less than I do now, my overall stress level was quite a bit lower because I was really enjoying what I was doing. There are things about my job I like now, but there are definitely times I wish I could be doing anything but working, and that’s stressful. Working isn’t per se unhealthy, but stress is. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187/184 "2019-11-19T16:21:41Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The exact terms imply each other, therefore semantically the same. implication does not mean equasion… > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Indeed. and maybe all the models that are made believing they have all the information are actually wrong ? if eve working was having that many unresearcjed variables, I’d have a plethora of tools for calculating isk per hour from pretty much every activity available. But I do. For Years now. Calculating potential optimum from that is just a matter of running a script on those tools 🙂 but it would not be fun. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > multiply by … 3 ? 4 ? And then we can start to discuss 🙂 . well maybe I could but then I don’t think I care enought to go that far and beyond on isk/h metric. I have funnier things to theorycraft and optimize in-game as it is 😛 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > How can you prove it exists if nobody can see it ? hence - philosophical 🙂 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > literally zero difference. Just because wikipedia list it as synonims does not mean it’s syntactically same. One means.. well theory, and other means underlying laws governing actual thing. So if we went all the way down to the bottom of words meaning quantum theory is an attempt at describing quantum physics within our ability to perceive and understand it. But yeah I’ll admit that using these two in here as synonims is far more common. > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > It’s funny how the loser Duos switched topic, > declaring that I am talking about validity of something, > when all I did was pointing out that our PvE is easy and definitely not fighting. Nah You know what’s funnier? the fact that this came from one of the original derailers of the thread. Where all the OP said was basically “hey guys don’t be scared to see red on your healthbar, it’s funnier this way” 🙂 > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > So many losers. Losers. Literally real life losers. > Honestly, I really would love to find out more about these people real lifes. > It must be super interesting and depressing alike. Frankly for someone so constantly butthurt about people enjoying their game in a different way than You do it’s ironic that it’s you calling everyone else a “real life loser”. I may be wrong, but I’d say that if your real life was all so great and good You would not feel the need to throw the word “loser” on internet forums so often as You do. Now have a great evening, night, whatever everyone, off I go to enjoy mine, will bump back in next time I’ll be bored at work or something 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/going-red-on-hp-dont-fear-it/201187.md?page=10)