# Good video about why EVE is falling apart instead of thriving **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192 "2022-06-26T09:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/121 "2022-07-01T12:32:27Z")
you mean that crabs like to be near power block capital systems ? and you want us solo players to jump 4 hours to find them and die? i did that A LOT before filaments i even have a base in NPC space with 30 ships that i could jump clone to do it but i like filaments more and its not like this is a way of living , there is a lot more content in LOW SEC we do it just for the lulz ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/122 "2022-07-01T12:34:14Z")
> [@Oskar\_Milde](#): > > Filaments are great (in some ways) for generating content. NPSI and basing out of Jita has become entirely more viable as a result of them, so removing them entirely would kill playstyles as much as resolve their problems. This is unacceptable. How is that unacceptable? These fleets used to base out of Jita in the past as well, or they had bases in other areas from which they started operations. This required player cooperation to get the necessary ships and equipment to these places, which created content and risk and interaction. Finding wormholes for the fleets also created interaction and created roles for people to help these organizations. Filaments removed that, again proving the points of the video. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/123 "2022-07-01T12:34:34Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > You are the kind of player that requires these clutches that ultimately damage the game on a fundamental level. No i dont require them. If i have a specific destination in null i want to go i am capable of getting there gate to gate. Like getting skill books for those loot things that were dropping in Outer Ring. But i dont usually have a speciifc destination. Usually i just want to land somewhere and fly home hacking sites. You make the assumption that if filmaments didnt exist then id make the trip anyway. I wouldn’t. I dont have the time for that. Id do other activities. So as it stands i filament into null. Null gets the benefit of hunting me while im there. and i fly home through lowsec so they get to see me to. I even wave on my past. If filaments didnt exist it just scan a wh and day trip. Null doesnt see me……. low doesnt see me. Taking a position that something is 100% bad just undermines your credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/124 "2022-07-01T12:38:33Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > But i dont usually have a speciifc destination. Usually i just want to land somewhere and fly home hacking sites. You can do that with wormholes just fine. In the process of doing that, you put yourself at risk while traveling through the wormholes, thus become content for other people. Filaments remove that. As a new player you also learn to navigate these good shortcuts, you learn which wormholes to seek out to find quick connections to desired places, which things to pay attention to so that you don’t die too often. Filaments remove all that. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > You make the assumption that if filmaments didnt exist then id make the trip anyway. I wouldn’t. I dont have the time for that. Id do other activities. You would do that activity. You did it before Filaments existed and you would continue to do it if Filaments had never become a thing. That’s how people did it for well over a decade after all. Saying that you would stop doing or never engage in any activity like deep null exploration undermines _your_ credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/125 "2022-07-01T12:38:35Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Filaments removed that, again proving the points of the video. What points. That video is actually a fairly balanced assessement of two approaches and clearly states thats there are pros and cons to both of the approaches. That you have taken it as a condemnation of one approach over the other speaks volumes in terms of how your personal bias’s are clouding your thoughts on this. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/126 "2022-07-01T12:39:04Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > dude i think you are not aware of the ways to use filaments to go from anywhere to trig land them to hs Ofc I understand bro I joined bank robbers with Bjorn when poch was fresh who did ESS then into poch then ran through poch to sakenta which was always garenteed 4 jumps from jita exit with extraction filament. But to move between those systems today is a lot harder. I have maybe 80 hours of poch experience. Nvm the 5 day grind to trig 4.0 standings which made me want to shoot myself in the face xD ![Standings](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/3/73437ee994d7ff307990f64842bf91173783fc23.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/127 "2022-07-01T12:39:46Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Bjorn i love hm ❤ ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/128 "2022-07-01T12:40:41Z")
It’s unacceptable as I’d hope that we can all agree that making changes that kill playstyles generally has only negative consequences in both the short and long term. This has been proven time and again in the past - group complains long and loud about a problem. CCP response is to nerf the problem into the ground without thought to consequences. Playstyle dies out, along with the players that go with it. If you think I’m wrong in this assessment, by all means show me a playstyles that was eradicated that led to an increase in players in the game. I’m a patient guy. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/129 "2022-07-01T12:42:47Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > What points. That video is actually a fairly balanced assessement of two approaches and clearly states thats there are pros and cons to both of the approaches. No, the video clearly comes to the conclusion that the wrong convenience features (like fast travel or secluded farming) take away from a game and offer nothing good in return. They reduce the game to mere mundane activity instead of meaningful, rich and profound experiences between players, especially in games that used to rely on player interaction a lot to get things like your roams or exploration done. I doesn’t pain me to tell you that your opinion and points of view are disturbed to a ridiculous level by the rose-tinted glasses that are filaments and other damaging convenience features to you. > [@Oskar\_Milde](#): > > It’s unacceptable as I’d hope that we can all agree that making changes that kill playstyles generally has only negative consequences in both the short and long term. As described above, Filaments have killed off or contributed massively to the killing off of whole swaths of playstyles and game experiences since they were introduced. As you said in the next sentence, they introduced these filaments without a thought on the negative consequences. They only saw the “good sides” (like getting people to content quicker) but they ignored the poisoned double edged sword of this “good” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/130 "2022-07-01T12:45:36Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Saying that you would stop doing or never engage in any activity like deep null exploration undermines _your_ credibility. what i said is I wouldnt travel to do it. I have limited time. Im not spending all my game time travelling for 5 minutes of doing something fun. If i find a connection into null through wh’s then ill do null exploration. If i had infinite game time sure………Great……. Lets fly everywhere. But thats unrealistic for most people. My game time matters to me and i do activites that dont require 20-30minutes of prep time. But sure…………. we can go with your assessment of how i play EVE. You do however understand that far better than i ever could 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/132 "2022-07-01T12:46:23Z")
if you ask me do you want eve before the terrible triglavian invasion i say a big YES that said i kinda like filaments to null sec in the current state of the game ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/133 "2022-07-01T12:48:58Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > I doesn’t pain me to tell you that your opinion and points of view are disturbed to a ridiculous level by the rose-tinted glasses that are filaments and other damaging convenience features to you. Those conveniance features keep people in the game 🙂 But your responses are unsurprising given the relentless bitterness and negativety you dsiplay in your posts. Some of us play eve to have fun. Not complain about CCP’s choice of font. Having to scan signatures during events. The joy of the complainer :). ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/134 "2022-07-01T12:50:56Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Those conveniance features keep people in the game 🙂 Sure but its too convenient there can be a middle ground where both sides are happy. OVER COMPLICATED + UNNECESSARY GRIND \< - \> Balance \< - \> CONVENIENT + UNFULFILLING ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/135 "2022-07-01T12:52:20Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > that said i kinda like filaments to null sec in the current state of the game But they make the current state of the game become ever worse. By now they are clearly necessary to get you anywhere to find some content. No one can honestly say that this is a good thing, let alone a sustainable path. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Those conveniance features keep people in the game 🙂 The ever dropping character numbers each week clearly state otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/136 "2022-07-01T12:53:35Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > But they make the current state of the game ever worse. By now they are clearly necessary to get you anywhere to find some content. No one can honestly say that this is a good thing, let alone a sustainable path. like i said before to me is a silly sport if ccp remove the filaments tomorrow i really don’t care i live in low anyway its not like im using them to be safe i like them to pew wen i don’t have nothing to do i understand your argument in find it valid to ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/137 "2022-07-01T12:54:43Z")
Without filament’s more people have to travel from high through low to null so you get more low fights thou. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/138 "2022-07-01T12:54:55Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Sure but its too convenient there can be a middle ground where both sides are happy. Im all for middle ground. Hence the numerous suggestions ive made to reduce availability of filaments, remove the pochven ones, give null the ability to jam their use and allow hunters to reopen the trace to follow. That then makes them far harder to use for escape (which is the principle problem) and allows them to continue to be used to allow players to get into action quickly. Win win as far as im concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/139 "2022-07-01T12:55:14Z")
Yeah, pretty racist to single out “the Asians”. Particularly as for many years it was the Russians who were the prime botting accused in Eve, up until the game launched in China and especially after serenity closed. You might as well just say “poor people” and cover all non-western countries for whom the RMT value of isk is greater than a standard 9-5 job. But I’m betting that calling out poor people in the way that you do “the Asians” doesn’t make you feel as good about yourself and your sense of superiority, so you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/140 "2022-07-01T12:55:56Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Without filament’s more people have to travel from high through low to null so you get more low fights thou. the kinds of fights i have in low sec involve low sec people the less NOT low sec people that apear in low sec the happier i am like i said in other topics , low sec people have a different ethos , CCP putting reasons for NOT low sec people to go to low sec ■■■■■■ the fun away ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192/141 "2022-07-01T12:58:10Z")
if you assume they will make the trip anyway? If someone is using a null filament they dont have a specific destination in mind. Its reasonable to assume they just want to go somewhere to do something fun. In my case as ive already said i have limited game time and having to travel takes away from the fun so id do something else. Im sure im not alone in that. So either way im not traveling? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-video-about-why-eve-is-falling-apart-instead-of-thriving/368192.md?page=8)